20 on the button...worst limp, worst raise...

[DcifrThs]

20/40 @ FW.

UTG is a tight player who i've never seen limp UTG.

MP1 is another tight player but a bit looser than UTG and i've seen him open limp before.

the table overall is very soft and passive for the most part, a few aggressive spots but overall towards the passive side postflop also.

typically 4-6 players to the flop for 1-2 bets.

onto the hand...

UTG limps, MP1 limps and 1 more average player limps.

you are on the button with XY.

what is the worst XY that you'd limp with there.

what is the worst XY that you'd raise with there.

and why?

Barron

[private joker]

Worst limping hand is probably 76s and JTo. Why? Because 76s is a great hand to crack an overpair with if UTG is getting tricky trying to LRR aces, and of course it has fine equity in position against all other limping hands. JT will have similar implied odds if it flops a nut straight draw, especially because its straights will involve cards that make other people 2 pair/set/TPTK type hands. Against these players I'd probably stay away from speculative hands that I'd play in other situations (against looser, worse players) like T8o, 97o, etc.

I'd also limp 22 here. Not sure what you mean by worst hand -- 76s is "worse" than JTo but it might have higher EV.

The worst hand I'd raise is probably JTs, maybe QJs.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Worst limping hand is probably 76s and JTo. Why? Because 76s is a great hand to crack an overpair with if UTG is getting tricky trying to LRR aces, and of course it has fine equity in position against all other limping hands. JT will have similar implied odds if it flops a nut straight draw, especially because its straights will involve cards that make other people 2 pair/set/TPTK type hands. Against these players I'd probably stay away from speculative hands that I'd play in other situations (against looser, worse players) like T8o, 97o, etc.

I'd also limp 22 here. Not sure what you mean by worst hand -- 76s is "worse" than JTo but it might have higher EV.

The worst hand I'd raise is probably JTs, maybe QJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

the reason i posted it was b/c the two tight players up front both limped.

i don't know about raising QJs here. typically that is easy but this is probably exactly what i had in mind (and KJs etc.) when i was thinking "what would i need to raise these two tight players ?"

limping sure, all pairs, suited connectors etc.

i dont' see why you'd draw the "line" at 76s and not play 65s or 54s??

Barron

[private joker]

It's an arbitrary line, I admit. Being the nitbox that I am, I still find it hard to come in with 5-high, even on the button. But against bad players I'll splash around.

You may be right that QJs is a limp' or at least it's close. But in a pot that's likely to be 5-handed, I wouldn't mind having suited broadway in position for a bigger pot, even if I am dominated. It's not like I am going to play one pair really hard, but if I flop a nice combo-draw, then I can ram and jam it using my position. Having a bigger pot makes it juicier to chase it. Sure it cuts down a tad on my implied odds, but not that much. I couldn't argue with somebody limping JTs here, or even QJs, but my left hand would probably not be able to restrain itself from throwing a bunch of chips in there.

[celiholic]

since they are good players, and i assume they will play well post-flop, so all suited cons, pp, maybe 78o and 89o+

i wont raise any offsuit boardway tho, given the players and situation, i'll only riase kqs+, aqo+(aqo is close), and of coz j10s+ if i m feelin lucky !

if the blinds are loose, i might even limp with jj, but usually r jj+, tens are close, i might chose to limp with it

[NinaWilliams]

Bah, we just missed you. Anyway, worst hand I'd raise is T9s and worst hand I limp is T9o. QJs is a clear raise and JTs is a bit closer, but raising is fun so I raise. T9s is pretty borderline and Id raise it against looser players, but I'd likely still end up raising here.

[sternroolz]

[ QUOTE ]
since they are good players, and i assume they will play well post-flop, so all suited cons, pp, maybe 78o and 89o+

i wont raise any offsuit boardway tho, given the players and situation, i'll only riase kqs+, aqo+(aqo is close), and of coz j10s+ if i m feelin lucky !

if the blinds are loose, i might even limp with jj, but usually r jj+, tens are close, i might chose to limp with it



[/ QUOTE ]

This is the second post I've seen you advocate comming into post with medium unsuited connectors. Those hands are money losers in multiway limit holdem games. Not only that, they are very difficult to play when you flop a pair, two pair, and bottom straight draws.

[Captain R]

[ QUOTE ]
Worst limping hand is probably 76s and JTo.

I'd also limp 22 here. Not sure what you mean by worst hand -- 76s is "worse" than JTo but it might have higher EV.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with PJ here.

The worst hand I'd raise is probably TT or AJs/KQs, maybe QJs if it's really loose-passive. JTs is a good multiway hand, but I'm not aggro enough to raise that in this spot.

[Dave Mac]

is this really what live games are like, the nittest bunch of guys ever. maybe i am missing something, and given i am used to agro 6 max and genearl sh games online, but if u can't play a huge range well in this spot i think there are major issues.
dave

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
is this really what live games are like, the nittest bunch of guys ever. maybe i am missing something, and given i am used to agro 6 max and genearl sh games online, but if u can't play a huge range well in this spot i think there are major issues.
dave

[/ QUOTE ]

i posted it specifically because there are 2 guys who are very very tight (the first one i only saw showdown 2 hands, AA and KK in 3 hrs and he barely played more than 5-10 hands in that time frame raising every one w/ the second guy being a bit looser but still not your average foxwoods player) and limping in from early position.

that is why i folded JTo, i couldn't see anything good coming of me flopping anything but the nuts lol (hyperbole)

Barron