2 pair on 4th street in Stud Hi/Lo. Uncomfortable playing high hands

[markray00]

I am not comfortable playing high hands in Stud 8 unless short handed. Could I have played this better, or should I say HOW could I have played this better? Also, any advice on playing high hands would be appreciated (I know that is very broad but I would like to briefly hear your "general rules") Thank You.

I am guessing that maybe I should have came in with a raise on 3rd and/or bet on 5th street.


Tournament - HORSE - 7 Card Stud High-Low - Level V (80/160), Ante 16 (converter)

Seat 1: 2,920
Seat 2: 1,310
Seat 3: 1,432
Seat 4: 1,298
Hero: 1,434
Seat 6: 1,902
Seat 7: 20
Seat 8: 1,684

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings in for 4 and is all-in
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (3.15 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 8: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (4.08 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in

6th Street - (4.08 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___all-in

River - (5.08 BB)

Hero: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Seat 7: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___all-in

Total pot: (5.08 BB)

[Ralph Wiggum]

fold on 3rd. A King is in, and a 9 is dead & you're battling all those possible lows.

[bbartlog]

Maybe this is a fold on third (I am not an authority on Stud Hi/Lo), but since when would having a multitude of opponents trying for low be an argument against staying in? They're holding each others' outs, giving you better odds, and fighting for the same half of the pot. Seems like you should be more inclined to play this hand if more villains are clearly trying to make a low...

[markray00]

Thanks for the response. If the king would have raised I would have folded but I saw 4th for the minimum. Having 2 MEDIUM pairs is more of what concerned me.

[betgo]

The king could be split kings. Kings wouldn't necessarily raise in early position in stud/8.

[Alchemist]

Unless I'm in steal position, I fold this hand about 99% of the time because they're such a headache to play. After the K limps I fold it 110% of the time.

High hands do go up in value in later stages of tournaments however and you should be more inclined to raise with them if you can get it heads-up. But with the BI and *4* limpers already in, split Jacks really suck.

Have a look at this recent thread.

[bigredlemon]

While they are holding each other's low cards and thus each of them are less likely to hit a low card, they together as a group are more likely to hit 4 to a good low on 4th. The lows that brick will fold and you will only be getting more money from those that hit, if any at all.

Here's a simple example to illustrate the point: if there are 3 aces showing, it is more likely that someone at the table is holding a pair of aces than if only 2, 1, or no aces are showing.

[Andy B]

I actually think you played it OK. This a very different scenario from Joe Tall's hand. Maybe folding third is a little better, but I'll limp in late when it's cheap. I would have bet fifth and maybe checked sixth instead.

[Tha Stunna]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is a fold on third (I am not an authority on Stud Hi/Lo), but since when would having a multitude of opponents trying for low be an argument against staying in? They're holding each others' outs, giving you better odds, and fighting for the same half of the pot. Seems like you should be more inclined to play this hand if more villains are clearly trying to make a low...

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong; that would be correct if your opponents held one way hands like 732, but more lows means that there are more straight draws out against you, and with a weak made hand you are very vulnerable to losing the maximum. You lucked out this time, but the 90% of the time you don't improve on 4th you won't know what to do.

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a simple example to illustrate the point: if there are 3 aces showing, it is more likely that someone at the table is holding a pair of aces than if only 2, 1, or no aces are showing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty certain that's dead wrong; with three aces out, the chance of aces should be less than if 2 aces are out. 2 aces maximizes the chance of a pair of aces. Also, someone having a completely dead pair of aces is not as big of a deal as a live pair.

[*TT*]

On 3rd street your getting more than 5:1 and your likely closing the action, this is an easy call. This hand is light years away from the Joe Tall hand last week with (J2)J, he was in middle position facing a completion and 1/2 a table of low cards yet to act. I think those who use the K limp as a reason to fold would be right if position or pot size were different.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]