Chris Matthews surprising honesty on US-Iran relations

[warrantofice]

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Reality is often tough to face though, I understand.



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Are you trying to say you understand Reality?

[Mark1808]

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Yes, I would like some evidence from someone other than the Bush Administration that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. Have you been in a coma the past 5 years? You're using the same justifications for going into Iraq that weren't true. They're supporting terrorists and they have weapons of mass destruction. Have you learned nothing from Iraq? Watch this video as a refresher course for the build up to the Iraq war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

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I like youtube too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE

The major intelligence sources throughout the world felt Sadaam was a threat, as did Republicans as did the Democrats as did the majority of Americans. What were UN inspectors even doing there if there was no credible threat of WMD? To now say that Bush is a corrupt liar because things have not turned out well is counter productive.

Islamic facists are now intent on taking over Iraq, to let them do so creates a security risk for the United States. The world is an ever changing place and the United States must continue to take action to secure our people and our interests. The liberals are too concerned with being "fair" to our enemies and our enemies are using this to their advantage. These people will not be "fair" with us if given a chance.

[warrantofice]

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The major intelligence sources throughout the world felt Sadaam was a threat, as did Republicans as did the Democrats as did the majority of Americans. What were UN inspectors even doing there if there was no credible threat of WMD? To now say that Bush is a corrupt liar because things have not turned out well is counter productive.

Islamic facists are now intent on taking over Iraq, to let them do so creates a security risk for the United States. The world is an ever changing place and the United States must continue to take action to secure our people and our interests. The liberals are too concerned with being "fair" to our enemies and our enemies are using this to their advantage. These people will not be "fair" with us if given a chance.


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I don't think quoting the majority of american's is particularly great at forwarding you argument. And I don't mean this by the fact that they twice voted into office Bush, though i could make that point, but rather just general knowledge test. How could they possibly have any idea of the treat of Iraq and Saddam if the majority couldn't even find the country on a map...?

And I really don't have any idea what you mean by your hole 'fair' argument...we're not being fair to them??? What does that mean? What would being 'less fair' entail? Carpet bombing the entire country? Shoot first ask second? I really have no idea how you could be any less fair to a peoples. Would love to hear your response/explanation to that.

[warrantofice]

Par 1
My previous post did not do justice to disecting your argument. Alright. So you say that Republicans and Democrats felt that Sadaam was a threat...I seem to recall that the majority of them never even read the briefing on the Iraq war strategy...Oh but, they had the gist of the matter so it wasn't necessary. What were the UN inspectors even doing there??? I don't know how to answer that.any explanation is to long and obv not worth reading. but let's just say its usually a good idea to have inspectors visit countries which previously possessed powerful weapons. You end your argument by stating that questioning Bush is wrong because its going to be counter productive??? what the...So my Fire Stone Tire falls apart on the highway, i shouldn't ask why....my time is better spent getting another Fire Stone Tire???

[warrantofice]

Par 2
Islamic facists are now intent on taking over Iraq...I just had to type it out to really think about that...Wow..those are some words.Western Libertarians are intent on taking over Iraq...that sounds better. 'the world is an ever changing place' hey i agree with that. 'And the United States must continue to take action to secure our people and our interests' Now that...i'm not sure i agree with that...I think a lot of countries/peoples could claim the same thing.seems like Sadaam was just protecting his people from the kurds and Hitler was protecting Germany from the world..nope way to broad and scary that statement...And i talk about the rest of your being fair statement in my first post...but that too is pretty [censored] I mean honestly. Were being to "fair" yep.. need some more agent Orange i guess. teach those guys a lesson...hell, nothing like a nuke to show someone whos boss...they think they knew about chemical warfare??? Hell we invented chemical warfare...

[GtrHtr]

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Reality is often tough to face though, I understand.



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Are you trying to say you understand Reality?

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Reality as it applies to war, yes.

[warrantofice]

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Reality is often tough to face though, I understand.



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Are you trying to say you understand Reality?

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Reality as it applies to war, yes.

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This may seem like a small point to fight over.

but I must say sir "your full of [censored]"

or atleast very delusional, if you actually believe you can possibly understand the "Reality of War"...you have any idea of how broad and impossible that is? Have you ever fought in a war? Have you ever grown up in a war? Have you ever lived in a war torn country? Ever been a farmer to afraid to harvest his fields because its been mined? Have you had live ammunition fired through the walls of your house? I could go on for a long long long long time.

Its actually impossible to understand the reality of war because you would have to have lived some many different lives, and died many times.

[GtrHtr]

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Hell we invented chemical warfare...


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Ok, I'll bite. Who is we?

[pokerpunchout]

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Yeah, its all our fault.

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Where is the proof that they're building a nuclear weapon?

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Would a mushroom cloud work?

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Good idea! If we can't use logic and evidence, just scare the [censored] out of em!

Hannity would be proud.

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Hannity is an idiot IMO.

Reality is often tough to face though, I understand.



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I would like to bring up the fact that in modern history Iran has never attacked any country or started a war. They have been attacked, but never fired the first shot. That seems like a fairy good track record considering the neighborhood, and the same can definitely not be said for us, Russia, Isreal, France, China, Pakistan, or India, (all of which currently posses nuclear weapons.

[warrantofice]

Okay I will subtract that point. However, selective reading through wikipedia, chemical warfare has been around for centuries...however...the first time it was used in a modern sense. ie. in a projectile weapon was by americans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemica...re#Rediscovery
"Later, during the American Civil War, New York school teacher John Doughty proposed the offensive use of chlorine gas, delivered by filling a 10 inch (254 millimeter) artillery shell with 2 to 3 quarts (2 to 3 liters) of liquid chlorine, which could produce many cubic feet (a few cubic meters) of chlorine gas. Doughty’s plan was apparently never acted on, as it was probably presented to Brigadier General James Wolfe Ripley, Chief of Ordnance, who was described as being congenitally immune to new ideas.

A general concern over the use of poison gas manifested itself in 1899 at the Hague Conference with a proposal prohibiting shells filled with asphyxiating gas. The proposal was passed, despite a single dissenting vote from the United States. The American representative, Navy Captain Alfred Thayer Mahan, justified voting against the measure on the grounds that "the inventiveness of Americans should not be restricted in the development of new weapons."

Obv. you will read through this and see that it has been used or proposed many times and i have selectively choosen this section to forward my claim. But i think when i was refering to as US or We i was meaning america in a gerneral sense was perhaps one of the first/perhaps second along side nazi germany. to begin actively researching and stock piling chemical warfare agents.