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#21
10-18-2007, 01:10 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
[ QUOTE ]
if he called you a fish based on you peeling 4th, i must say im confused. i almost always peel one with 245. [/ QUOTE ] You're welcome in my game, any time. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Do you remember Doyle Brunson's story about being in a game with a drunk? It's in both SS and According to Doyle. Brunson got head up in a stud game with a drunk and raised and reraised all-in on an early street when he had a slight edge: Brunson had a pair and the drunk had a draw. After the money went in, the drunk hit his draw and Brunson was out of action for the night. The moral is, make your stands when you have a big edge, not a small one. If our hero is ahead here, it's not by much. Hero caught a bad card; fold and wait for a better opportunity. 
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#22
10-18-2007, 03:14 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
Well first of all the story was Chip Reese went broke when he had a small edge and all his money on the table and second of all the moral of the story is terrible because it's a cash game and if I lose pushing a small edge I pull more dollars out of my pocket and put them onto the table.
My question isn't whether this is a small edge I should pass up for some absurd reason, it's whether this is a situation in which calling has a better expectation than folding.
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#23
10-18-2007, 04:11 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
[ QUOTE ]
Well first of all the story was Chip Reese went broke when he had a small edge and all his money on the table and second of all the moral of the story is terrible because it's a cash game and if I lose pushing a small edge I pull more dollars out of my pocket and put them onto the table. My question isn't whether this is a small edge I should pass up for some absurd reason, it's whether this is a situation in which calling has a better expectation than folding. [/ QUOTE ] its really thin, but against the villain that you have explained i probably peel.. his range is probably a lot wider than most are assuming.. and he feels almost obligated to bet this razz card regardless of his hole cards.. this is something you see a lot of players do.. like theyre trying to win a race. you can be sure that if he doesnt improve on 5th he will think twice about puting $160 in unless hes a lagtard and will peel basically anything once he gets involved.
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#24
10-18-2007, 04:54 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
[ QUOTE ]
and he feels almost obligated to bet this razz card regardless of his hole cards.. this is something you see a lot of players do.. like theyre trying to win a race. [/ QUOTE ] bill, by peeling fourth, the OP is basically trying to win a race. also, which hand range hand range can the villain have that has OP as a slight favorite? i can't think of one. edited to add: i dont' have two dimes at work so i can't run sims.
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#25
10-18-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
Standard caveats aside (I'm still learning split-pot games, I'm bad at poker generally, I don't play this high often, I don't know this crowd, mixed games are more about exploiting uncertainties and meta-game stuff...), I post in threads like this because I often see high-stakes hands that just baffle me, and I'm hoping that there is something other than "they often have nothing here" that I can grasp with my meager poker mind. This seems like a situation where "they often have nothing here" isn't even a reason to chase half the pot.
Straight hi, you aren't involved in this hand at all. Straight Razz (ignore the bring-in rule for a moment), you maybe peel because some villains will defend with a big card, some pair cards have folded and your backdoor draws are better than theirs. In a split pot game, the Razz considerations don't apply because big cards in the hole hurt you for high and you wouldn't mind making a pair. That villain could have a really wide range doesn't really make the hand any easier to play. A pair of Threes in the hole sucks for us, an Ace in the hole sucks for us, little cards suck for us... What can you catch on Fifth to make you like your hand, and alternately what cards constitute "bad" cards for villain? When I'm going to play in a confusing situation, where I never really know where I'm at, I like to have something going for me if it turns out I've made the right decisions -- an overlay of some kind. What's the bonus for playing here? What extra thing other than maybe getting our money back is there? How do you scoop? How do you get an extra bet? If the answer to all these questions is "catch good twice while he bricks," then I guess it's not that big a mystery after all, but I'm hoping there's more to it than that.
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#26
10-20-2007, 03:23 PM
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Re: 80/160 Stud 8 simple 4th street spot
some hand ranges, very suprising to me that if villain has two broadway cards, OP's equity is considerable.
cards EV 4s 2s Td 5d 0.551 Qs 2c Jd 8d 0.449 4s 2s Td 5d 0.467 Ts Ac 2c 8d 0.533 4s 2s Td 5d 0.401 7s Ac 2c 8d 0.599 4s 2s Td 5d 0.329 Qs Qc 2c 8d 0.671
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