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  #1  
Old 11-22-2007, 07:53 PM
mingusmingus mingusmingus is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Default bottom set and flush draw

Opponent is 38/12/2.5 over 250 hands.

Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $76.30
UTG+1: $122.15
Hero: $89.10
Button: $50.95
SB: $77.65
BB: $23.05

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $2.25</font>, Hero calls, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($7.5, 3 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $7.15</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $28.6</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $92.95</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero calls all-in $58.25</font>.
Uncalled bets: $6.1 returned to UTG+1.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($181.2, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $181.2)


River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($181.2, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $181.2)


Results:
Final pot: $181.2

I hate that raising folds out everything I beat and lets better hands shove, but I'm not sure about calling down either. All comments appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2007, 08:15 PM
TimberBee TimberBee is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trondheim, Norway
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Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

ugh, I don't see any other way to play it. You can't fold getting more than 2-1 when he pushes, you have a set and a FD! I guess it's fine, but I can see why you don't feel good about it.

If you feel he has a higher set here most of the time, I guess you can fold to the reraise, because he sometimes has higher hearts as well. But I'm not sure...
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2007, 10:52 PM
crashwhips crashwhips is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 102
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

Standard, I'm pretty much always jamming it all in when I flop a set + flush draw. He could have a hand that you are ahead of but has lots of outs (i.e. top two plus straight draw, straight draw + higher flush draw) so you want to get the money in before he can draw out on you or before a scare card can come and kill your action. Also, bare top two will often get it in with you on this flop at these stakes.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2007, 11:02 PM
skelm skelm is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 112
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

How often was UTG+1 raising pre-flop? In most of the games i've played I could see him oversetting you with Aces here enough of the time to make this foldable (Although the game i've been playing in does not see much pre-flop agression unless you have aces with good redraws and I'm quite confidant that would not be the case online).
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:28 AM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: big-ass yard
Posts: 2,250
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

[ QUOTE ]
How often was UTG+1 raising pre-flop? In most of the games i've played I could see him oversetting you with Aces here enough of the time to make this foldable (Although the game i've been playing in does not see much pre-flop agression unless you have aces with good redraws and I'm quite confidant that would not be the case online).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ridiculous. Even if he turns two aces face up, folding would be a huge mistake.
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:29 AM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

standard, he is aggressive enough to not always show up with aces here, and when he does you're not in all that bad shape.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:42 AM
wazz wazz is offline
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Posts: 2,560
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

'I hate that raising folds out everything I beat'

Not true on boards like this at all. Hand is standard, don't second-guess yourself just because you ran into a bigger hand. He has AT + a draw enough of the time to make this very +EV.
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:50 AM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: big-ass yard
Posts: 2,250
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

[ QUOTE ]
ugh, I don't see any other way to play it. You can't fold getting more than 2-1 when he pushes, you have a set and a FD! I guess it's fine, but I can see why you don't feel good about it.

If you feel he has a higher set here most of the time, I guess you can fold to the reraise, because he sometimes has higher hearts as well. But I'm not sure...

[/ QUOTE ]

if he has a higher set, he almost never has hearts with it. and in the miraculous occasion that he does, you can still hit quads or go runner-runner.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:33 AM
blopp blopp is offline
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Location: coaching plo/nlhe
Posts: 691
Default Re: bottom set and flush draw

[ QUOTE ]
Also, bare top two will often get it in with you on this flop at these stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. He can have alot draws, and you have redraw. Just unlucky. I like flopraise to get utg to fold (bether) draws.
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