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#11
11-01-2007, 12:52 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
[ QUOTE ]
Fold. You got raised on the turn which indicates strength. From what I can gather strength from drooling monkeys might carry more weight. Therefore, you will see the nuts almost always, and you obviously have no redraw. Whatever you do...DO NOT raise until your arm falls off. [/ QUOTE ] Is this post a joke? 
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#12
11-01-2007, 01:13 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
I don't get why it is suggested to three bet preflop. You are bloating the pot out of position in a situation where the limping idiots are going to call for sure.
Is it me or does it seem that people are taking the preflop equity edge thing a little too far these days? I assume that is why you are raising here. You are certainly not trying to isolate are you? Bet flop 3 bet turn.
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#13
11-01-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
That flop is super donkilicious. Make it happen. As far as preflop, I don't think the limpers ever fold in a 20 game and prefer a call allowing me to manipulate the pot a little better postflop when I like the flop.
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#14
11-01-2007, 01:50 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Fold. You got raised on the turn which indicates strength. From what I can gather strength from drooling monkeys might carry more weight. Therefore, you will see the nuts almost always, and you obviously have no redraw. Whatever you do...DO NOT raise until your arm falls off. [/ QUOTE ] Is this post a joke? [/ QUOTE ] You have to ask?
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#15
11-01-2007, 01:51 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
mong, i'm pretty sure 99 has a decent edge against 3 other players...?
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#16
11-01-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
[ QUOTE ]
mong, i'm pretty sure 99 has a decent edge against 3 other players...? [/ QUOTE ] It probably does. What I am wondering though is do we always exploit preflop edges no matter how small and no matter what position we are in? It seems that there would be occassions where it might be better to forego that edge in order to more easily play the hand postflop. Also, when considering our edge do we put any thought into how raising or reraising might create reverse implied odds post flop. It seems that 99 is just good enough to keep us in the hand until the river in certain situations where we may have just folded earlier had the pot not been so big. Maybe this is a situation where we can mix it up and sometimes reraise and sometimes just call.
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#17
11-01-2007, 02:28 PM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
Lead flop. Anything but leading into 4 people here is pretty bad IMO. Charge the overcards to draw nearly dead and get there.
I would consider NOT 3 betting the turn since Ben could be will lay down most hands you have beat at this point. Against normal retardo spew monkeys I 3 bet since they don't fold after raising the turn. Your getting 4 bet if Ben has a straight, and probably ONLY making more money if Ben has two pair. I'd say call turn raise, donk river. Not that you're not ahead, I just think it's your best chance to make more money. In a response to the Scary_Tiger would said to 3 bet preflop, I have to disagree. I imagine you're playing in a game where the limpers aren't folding for two bets preflop after putting in 1. In that case 3 bet gets us in a large pot, in first postion, against 4-5 players, with a hand that only plays well multi-way when it flops a set, and we lose the option to CR the flop on a favorable flop and face the field with two cold. Do we have a preflop equity edge? yes. Do the other factors outweigh that small preflop edge? yes.
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#18
11-04-2007, 12:56 AM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
I think 3-betting preflop, donk/jamming the flop, and turn 3-bet as played are all correct plays here. My turn range should be quite wide because I presume Nina's to be as well.
BB has 66 and calls the 3-bet planning to fold the river if the board does not pair. Thoughts?
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#19
11-04-2007, 05:24 AM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
[ QUOTE ]
I think 3-betting preflop, donk/jamming the flop, and turn 3-bet as played are all correct plays here. My turn range should be quite wide because I presume Nina's to be as well. BB has 66 and calls the 3-bet planning to fold the river if the board does not pair. Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] 66 on a board of 9736 w/ a flush draw after getting 3 bet is seeing a showdown. what makes you think 97 wouldn't 3bet, along w/ 33, 96s etc. it was a nice sized pot looking pf w/ bb coming along for 1 bet (sb in for 1.5). folding here even after good player turn 3 bet on a blank river is not good imo. you'll see 97s, 96s, 33 too much to fold here w/ 66 after the flop checks around. Barron
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#20
11-04-2007, 06:23 AM
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Re: FW 20 I Raise(Hand Against Myself)
[ QUOTE ]
As far as preflop, I don't think the limpers ever fold in a 20 game and prefer a call allowing me to manipulate the pot a little better postflop when I like the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I know this is common logic on this forum but i honestly don't get it. When you 3-bet pf you collect on your equity from each bet that goes into the pot. If you expect everybody to call (including BB), that is 4 more sb's than just calling. So if you have 27% edge in 5-way pot then you gain .35 sb every single hand. What types of manipulations are you gonna make postflop that are gonna guarantee you .35 more sb in the long run? The fact that you are oop makes manipulating anything even harder imo.
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