two river check-raises, deep-stack 25/50/XX live, 1 for value, 1 bluff

[etizzle]

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yeah i agree with what was wrote so far, hand1 check-call looks nice, if he folds to a check-raise you had the best hand. hand2 easy check-raise but i would make it very big since your not getting called except he has the 7 and with that its gonna be hard for him to lay it down no matter how much u make it

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do you guys really think villain in hand 1 is calling here with 6x? I think that's by far the biggest part of his house range (not including missed draws). He would range 1010 or better preflop, mayyyybe 99, so when I cr I would be cring specifically to bluff him off 6x. What else can he have really? FWIW, if I donk river I THINK he calls with 6x (he might fold I don't really know, maybe if I bet like 15k or so but that would look fishy). I'm not so sure he calls a cr with it though.

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why would he bet the river with 6x?

[TxRedMan]

Hand 1 i'd have to be there to make a call on what's best. That's one of those spots where I really have to judge the guy to determine what to do, and need to know the flow of the game and the history. I'm leaning towards a medium sized bet though.

Hand 2 donking the turn would be bad. I say that for a number of reasons, but you're playing 7-2 so obviously he has trips much more often than normal there, which would also make me inclined to check the river and 3x bet him.

[g-p]

if u open shove river in hand 2 hes not folding 27 !!

[tsarast]

Props Dave, these hands are very interesting... although personally I don't think the decision nodes you presented are that difficult.

Hand 1: He will not call you with a straight or missed diamonds, and will snap call you if beat. (I agree that I don't think he has a 6 here... how can he call turn with only a 6?). He either has a 4, a mid pair ( he didn't raise preflop, so 77-JJ) if you are beat... or missed diamonds or a straight if you are good. Against this range you pretty much can't value bet, so it's pointless to bet. You check and make a decision, and I hate raising here...

Hand 2: If he will definitely not fold a 7, then check raising is best... his range is air, pair above 7, or a 7. If he doesnt fold a 7, then you get thin value bets (88-AA) + bluffs, which will all fold to CR, plus if he bets 5-10k on a 7, you can crai and win 30k+ in a spot where he wont fold for 30k, the EV is huge over betting 5-10k (where you may or may not get called by pairs, and definitely a 7), or 10-30k where you get called for sure by a 7, but 7 only... so they are pretty close, but if you lead out big he will fold and you miss out on thin value bets and bluff $$.

[tsarast]

also, if you lead 20-30k, he might fold a 7. he knows its at best 20/30k to chop 5k at that point. dunno that depends on the player, but if that is true, then CRAI is even better, cuz then if he bets 5-10k, he is getting a much better price (say he bets 8k, 10+18k = 28k in middle, u crai for 22k more, he now call 22k to win 19k... much better odds to call for a chop)

[Boosted J]

<3 persian steve

[Perestroika]

I think hand one is more interesting so I will comment. I think any size bet unless your opponent consistently is making huge overbets is really a sub-optimal play given his most likely range. Therefore checking seems to be the best option, and I think CHECK/RAISE dominates all other options from the alternative CHECK/FOLD or CHECK/CALL. I actually think CHECK/CALL is also not good, but of course will win you money I would imagine around 20% of the time. If opponent has a 6 65% of the time and he even folds it 75% of the time to your river C/R you are gaining EV, otherwise if he is a massive fish and will call it then wait for a better spot and C/F.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

Dave,

I didn't read any of the other posts but in your OP you say "villain will bet here because he has a full house, not because he thinks it's a good thin VB" or something to tht extent. Therefore, wouldn't/shouldn't be call the river c/r "because he has a full house, not because he thinks it's a thin/good/hero call?"

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

This is for hand one.

[ArmenH]

Not sure about Hand 1 but Hand too i would overbet the pot on river into villain. If he has a 7 he is calling and and overpair would probably look you up as well. I'm afraid if I check river to villain he might check back an overpair or and A high type hand. The only hand he could bet is 72 or a missed draw. You played your hand like a draw so with river bet it makes your hand look like a fishy bluff.