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  #1  
Old 11-24-2007, 09:10 PM
cs3 cs3 is offline
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Default Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

I admitedly dont play much deepstacked buyin poker, but there has been a ton of discussion about it lately and it made me think about a few things:

lets say youre a regular and your game varies from 20/17 - 26/21, not necessarily the best in your game but definitely a winner. now for simplicity sake lets say the game is .5/1 blinds with a $200 (200bb) buyin, 6 max, obv online. the standard opening raise is still 4bb's + 1bb per limper, so usually $4 opens.

how would playing the game like a standard 1/2 100bb game change things? like every time you open preflop you make it $8, and every time you 3bet you make it 25ish to go? you could also obv call standard opening raises with a wide range in pos for relatively cheap.
how would the regulars adjust, or would they adjust correctly at all? how would it affect your play vs the fish, or would it?

i have some ideas about how the game would be affected, and why/when it my be more profitable to play like this, but id like to hear some opninions on the matter first.
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  #2  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:02 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

Opening to 8x simply means people should tighten up. You've cut down on both their immediate odds (blinds are a smaller percentage of the pot) and implied odds (less room postflop).

If they don't adjust, good for you. If they do adjust, bad for you, because now you have to steal the blinds a whole lot to make up for those times when they play back with their tight ranges and you are usually behind.

Meanwhile, the whole point of playing deep-stack is to leverage your skill edge. As an example, for many position-based raises, you don't particularly mind if people stay in. If you keep blowing them out preflop, except when they have premium hands, now your skill advantage is negated.

That said, there are various reasons to deviate sometimes from your "standard" postflop raise when you are deep, but trying to force a "100BB-like" game seems counterproductive.
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  #3  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:08 PM
MikeyPatriot MikeyPatriot is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

Yeah, pretty much agree with everything pineapple said.

Honestly, I enjoy playing with 200BB stacks. It makes top pair type hands much less awkward to play. Playing a 8BB pot with 96BB behind instead of 196BB is not fun when a good villain raises or floats you. There's much more room to maneuver with deep stacks.
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  #4  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:21 PM
manupod manupod is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

Lol I disagree with everything little Mikey said.
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2007, 10:50 PM
dergitarrist dergitarrist is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

Basically you'd reduce your postflop edge as described perfectly by #2. People would tighten up and play Hellmuths Top10 Hands™ exclusively. And every time you give up a hand postflop you'll have to steal the blinds an for entire orbit to make up for it.

This happens in 100BB games sometimes, btw.. there's still plenty of fish (on sites without a "pot"-button like FTP) who don't know how much to raise preflop and make it $12 on a 1/2 game etc.
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:01 PM
cs3 cs3 is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

[ QUOTE ]

Meanwhile, the whole point of playing deep-stack is to leverage your skill edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, thats why the regulars play deep stacked... exactly my point. but we dont make much money from the regulars in general. i think that 1) it would tilt the hell out of them and 2) most would have a hard time adjusting properly even if they did realize what the correct adjustment was.

and what about the fish? i think this is the more important part, because imo you really shouldnt be sitting with more than 2 regs in ssnl at any time. obv there are exceptions for huge with with huge stacks, but if you table select at all you will have more fish at your tables than solid players.
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  #7  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:05 PM
Unknown Soldier Unknown Soldier is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

the bigger your edge, the more +EV the deeper you are. Won't be a proportional line though.

so its great to be deep with a fish
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2007, 11:37 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

[ QUOTE ]
the bigger your edge, the more +EV the deeper you are. Won't be a proportional line though.

so its great to be deep with a fish

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, fish will pay off pretty much the same hands 100BB deep as they will 200BB deep or more. They just can't get away. In fact, when you are deep, it makes much more sense to raise LESS (or even to just limp) with good implied odds hands like suited Aces and pairs. Stealing the blinds pales in comparison to the money you can win when the fish make second-best hands. If you limp, you can just get away cheap when you whiff, and if you hit, you can always overbet the pot later to build it, and they'll happily come along.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:02 AM
AlanDyer AlanDyer is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

let's face it, stealing the blinds is important, and you're all of a sudden spending double the money to steal the same blinds..
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:05 AM
Shizzle12345 Shizzle12345 is offline
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Default Re: Deep stack games - making them play YOUR game

lol this sucks. I thought about it and it sucks. Your edge comes from postflop play... Not from making it hard to enter preflop.
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