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  #1  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:16 PM
primate primate is offline
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Default 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

Villain is 34/16/1 over only 75 hands. No history as such but seems a bit fishy.

I likey my hand and want to get it in but what do I do on the flop?

Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $414.65
MP: $202
CO: $210.50
Hero (BTN): $393.15
SB: $151.15
BB: $532

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10</font>, SB folds, BB calls $8, UTG calls $8

Flop: ($31) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $26</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $74</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $404.65 and is All-In</font>, Hero ????
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:20 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

auto-call.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:23 PM
primate primate is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

OK. Give your reasoning.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:25 PM
TJ Eckleburg12 TJ Eckleburg12 is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

What range do you give him here?

I think 98 is most likely, and sets are possible of course.

Do you think he'd do this with something like JT? Or a worse flush draw?

If you think that he would, then call. As deep as it is, I'm inclined to fold. If he's already ahead, he probably has boat outs to make you lose even if you hit.
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:27 PM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

FWIW, calling and folding are pretty close. but if you're going to raise, then I think u should probably stack off. None-the-less, there might be merit in folding, since he seems to be fishy and their might be better places to get his money.

However, if you're going to raise and fold to a 3-bet, it might just be better to float the flop, so u don't get pushed off your big draw.
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:29 PM
shpanko shpanko is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

Agree with Paul 100%, if you're going to raise the flop you need to be ok getting the money in. Otherwise just call and see the turn. You can bluff later in the hand if you don't hit anyway since this guy isn't the king of hand reading lol
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:34 PM
Gesangsverein Gesangsverein is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

You really want to get it in with a draw for 200bb with villain shoving?!
Don`t know if I would be able to fold to his shove, but I just have a bad feeling about calling here.

I like calling his bet on the flop...You are deep and having postion + a ton of implied odds. In addition to that BB might have a medium strong hand and call which adds some dead money to the pot if you hit your flush.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:36 PM
loosbastard loosbastard is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with Paul 100%, if you're going to raise the flop you need to be ok getting the money in. Otherwise just call and see the turn. You can bluff later in the hand if you don't hit anyway since this guy isn't the king of hand reading lol

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #9  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:43 PM
TJ Eckleburg12 TJ Eckleburg12 is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

I think saying that you should float the flop is a little results-based. Obviously, since our flop raise got over-shoved, of COURSE we shoulda just called the flop!

In general, I agree that you should feel okay about getting bet-3bai if you're going to raise the flop. But for the BIG push all-in, I think you HAVE to consider that his most likely holdings are sets and two pairs that don't want to see more cards on this board.

Given that you raised the flop (which is fine of course), I think folding is clearly better than calling here.
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  #10  
Old 11-21-2007, 08:45 PM
soda soda is offline
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Default Re: 200nl 6max DEEP- Raised flop NutFLushDraw facing 4 bet push!

Meh... I don't really like how you played this one. I prefer a very large raise with this particular hand on the flop as well as with sets/top two for balance.

My reasoning is that I want to get the money in against most hands, but I don't want to be put in a position that a fold is likely correct against his now (once he shoves) greatly reduced range - two pair and sets mostly. Raising large on the flop (at least pot) will increase your fold equity, which I don't mind with a big draw. It also bloats the pot while we are often a favorite on teh flop as our hand plays much poorer on the turn if he calls our flop raise. Let's say he has AA here and you make your size raise. What does villain do? He calls or pushes quite often. Now say you raise huge, Villain finds a fold here every now and then to the larger raise, which is great because we are flipping with most big pairs and a slight dog to AA so every time you force him out, you are winning money. Last, but not least, if he does shove over the top, it makes much more sense to call with the better odds we have.

Well, now that I've got that out of my system, I'd call here. But, I'm a big fish and I call huge bets with just flush draws. It's all about style baby.

soda
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