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  #21  
Old 11-29-2007, 08:05 PM
efficacy efficacy is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

Also, my cap with AQo there vs the SB's (33/22) 3-bet isn't bad, is it? I thought it was probably for value vs their ranges, and capping gives my fold equity a nice shot in the arm.
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2007, 08:08 PM
Oink Oink is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

capping there is completely standard IMO. Unless BB is really tight, then his call should make the alarm bells go of
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

[ QUOTE ]

I put a large part of BB's range as pair + straight draw, and it seemed reasonable, given the size of the pot, that he could find a fold often enough for my river bet to be good. Your responses in this thread seem to confirm that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

On the other hand he called you down with JT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I have also pointed out the ambiguous answers we sometimes give when we are analyzing hands.Changing perspective that you did makes it just clearer to see that it is true.

I remember one hand where Hero had A4 on button and preflop raised.Got called by SB and reraised by a TAG BB.
Flop comes ATx. BB checks,SB checks, Hero bets and gets
checkraised by BB.
Many good posters told Hero to fold flop because this is a monster line from villain.I said that I could think of playing KK-JJ like BB and the same posters that told Hero to fold his baby aces suddenly says that there is no point of playing KK-JJ this way because no one ever drops an ace at the tables.
Who was right or wrong in that discussion doesn´t matter.
But I do think that the good posters who said to me that no one drops an ace at the tables had a point.
It is sometimes a difference between what you advocate in theory and what you´re capable of doing at the tables.
And then we have the levelling issue of course.
Your AQ bet is good if villain isn´t leveling with you, but if he thinks that you think that he think you wouldn´t bet AQ or TT then he is calling you anyway.

To sum it up.I have no idea what is right or what is wrong on this river and I think my head is going to explode.
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:34 PM
efficacy efficacy is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand he called you down with JT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

No he didn't - he folded, so I don't know what he had. I think JTs is a reasonable guess, so I used that hand.

edit: I think AQ is another possibility, maybe ATs, but that makes my 3-barrel way less cool. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:15 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

ILP's last post in the thread sums it up

you said it yourself that you check the turn like NINETY percent of the time with AQ. thus AQ is practically not in CO's range, thus you should actually fold JT.

c'mon now balla.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:12 AM
vmacosta vmacosta is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

you should call here against me. i call here as well, but make no claims that it's correct.
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:20 AM
SuperUberBob SuperUberBob is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

Am I a nit for folding preflop?

Something about cold-calling a raise and re-raise OOP without closing the action that makes this not right.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:34 AM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

[ QUOTE ]
you should call here against me. i call here as well, but make no claims that it's correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
do you bet the river with tens? do you cap preflop 100% and bet the flop+turn+river with AQ? what else is there?
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:59 AM
jstill jstill is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

[ QUOTE ]


you said it yourself that you check the turn like NINETY percent of the time with AQ. thus AQ is practically not in CO's range, thus you should actually fold JT.

c'mon now balla.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think even against vmacosta this is a fold no matter what he says, Miles summed up why. AQ, air and TT are way too heavily discounted vs the rest of his range after turn/river action... turn HU and it gets closer, then maybe its a call vs some of u "super lags"... have to take ur word for it

to efficacy I dont think bluffing AQ on the end after u bet the turn and got it HU is terrible, but its -EV vs unknowns id say, vs a known good tag maybe its slightly EV i duno... either way tho betting the turn with AQ into 2 is probably not a good play, and the line of barreling the turn and betting any river HU is most likely -EV

I also don't think theres any contradiction in the above logic that Oink alluded to in previous arguments for not betting the turn in COs shoes AND folding the river with JT in heros shoes
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:33 PM
ILOVEPOKER929 ILOVEPOKER929 is offline
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Default Re: JTs river spot in biggish pot

[ QUOTE ]
you should call here against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people should call here vs me also cuz I may have future kids to feed.
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