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#1
11-27-2007, 06:49 PM
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Another all in play
Since I had a "two different hole cards two pair", I thought this was a good move.
Comments ? Yah, yah, I know I "shoudn't" be just calling pre-flop, if so, how much should I be betting? My (probably faulty) reasoning is that with a relatively small stack, fairly late in the tourney, I don't feel confident raising with anything less than AA, or AK, and only barely confident with A3 Mike No IQ poker Weekly Tuesday 250 NoiQ FR 400/750, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker Button (27180) SB (5130) BB (750) UTG (5660) UTG+1 (1980) MP (11380) MP+1 (19110) MP+2 (4600) CO-1 (5590) CO <font color="#C00000">Hero (6080)</font> Preflop: Hero is in the CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 folds, MP+1 calls 800, 2 folds, Hero calls 800, 2 folds. Flop (2750) A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] MP+1 bets 800, Hero moves all-in for 5280 MP+1 calls 4480. 
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#3
11-27-2007, 07:49 PM
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Re: Another all in play
[ QUOTE ]
Since I had a "two different hole cards two pair", I thought this was a good move. Comments ? [/ QUOTE ] Why are you worried about pushing the last few chips in after you flop two pair? How you play two pair while very short-stacked is not a big part of poker strategy, or even short-stacked poker strategy. I didn't like your push here, but I don't think it is worth talking about it. When you limp in with a non-pair, you will flop two pair or better about 3.5% of the time. If you are considering playing hands like A3o and Q9o with a short stack, you should think more about the 96.5% of the time you don't flop two pair or better. [ QUOTE ] Yah, yah, I know I "shoudn't" be just calling pre-flop, [/ QUOTE ] That depends. If you like money, don't do it. If you don't like money, go ahead. [ QUOTE ] My (probably faulty) reasoning is that with a relatively small stack, fairly late in the tourney, I don't feel confident raising with anything less than AA, or AK, and only barely confident with A3 [/ QUOTE ] You shouldn't feel confident of winning. You should feel confident that it is the right play to raise with much weaker hands than AK, since you will increase your stack substantially when everyone folds, and you may be in good shape when you are called.
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#4
11-27-2007, 08:23 PM
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Re: Another all in play
mstram, i realize this is the beginner's forum...
but the A3 preflop call is a huge error. all-in or fold. strong preference for fold. then, you have two pairs and very small stack. no way i'd fold that even with a much, much bigger stack. i don't think people mind answering your hand histories, but i think we'd like to think there is some basic book/internet learning going on at same time.... basically 10X big blind is all-in or fold unless you have very big hand and want to get your opponents whole stack and worry everyone will fold to your action. so you'd only limp pre=flop to reraise all-in later preflop or go all-in on flop. and in general i'd say two pair is probably good for 40-50 BB's pre-flop. if not much more. depends on flop... but i'm all over getting my $$$$ in in this spot.
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#5
11-27-2007, 08:54 PM
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Re: Another all in play
[ QUOTE ]
mstram, i realize this is the beginner's forum... but the A3 preflop call is a huge error. all-in or fold. strong preference for fold. ...i don't think people mind answering your hand histories, but i think we'd like to think there is some basic book/internet learning going on at same time.... [/ QUOTE ] If you could explain why it's a huge error that would be great. I've actually believe it or not, read quite a bit, considering I've only been reading / playing for about 3 weeks ! Maybe I'm reading the wrong things [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] basically 10X big blind is all-in or fold unless you have very big hand and want to get your opponents whole stack and worry everyone will fold to your action. so you'd only limp pre=flop to reraise all-in later preflop or go all-in on flop. and in general i'd say two pair is probably good for 40-50 BB's pre-flop. if not much more. depends on flop... but i'm all over getting my $$$$ in in this spot. [/ QUOTE ] What do you mean by "10x big blind" ? ... (the size of the pot ??) Mike
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#6
11-27-2007, 10:38 PM
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Re: Another all in play
mike, no problem...
in the first instance, you're letting the blinds in very cheaply. so someone will hit the flop. you have a weak ace and that guy before could easily be limping a strong hand looking for the reraise.... basically when you get short-stacked, it's all about going all-in with some combo of decent hand and position. it's all power poker. no post-flop unless you had really strong hand pre-flop and are basically putting the rest in (occasionally you'll get a flop so bad, you might fold... but AA-QQ, i'd say my money's going in post-flop pretty much no matter what. also, small raise is probably better than limping. depends on opponents (you'll learn that "everything depends") and when i said 10X, i meant 10X the big blind = your stack. harrington (the best poker writer, and i don't think there's too much debate) looks at M which is stack/(money in pot before hand starts)...... but 8-10X big blind = get all your money in with decent hand and position. can't remember if there were much bigger stacks at table. i think there were. the limper is somewhat troublesome as he could be waiting for you to raise so he can re-raise. without the limper, i'd be going all-in with A3o (although it's huge trouble if someone wakes up with ATo or 66, for instance.... key question is whether hand like A7o or 33 folds.) hope that helps... i love books although i know they cost money... tons of stuff on internet about tournaments. looks at "shifting gears", final table, M, etc. as searches..... not sure if he gets into real short-stacked stuff... but darse's no-limit tourney primer is great and FREE.
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#8
11-28-2007, 01:59 PM
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Re: Another all in play
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] mstram, i realize this is the beginner's forum... but the A3 preflop call is a huge error. all-in or fold. strong preference for fold. ...i don't think people mind answering your hand histories, but i think we'd like to think there is some basic book/internet learning going on at same time.... [/ QUOTE ] If you could explain why it's a huge error that would be great. I've actually believe it or not, read quite a bit, considering I've only been reading / playing for about 3 weeks ! Maybe I'm reading the wrong things [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] basically 10X big blind is all-in or fold unless you have very big hand and want to get your opponents whole stack and worry everyone will fold to your action. so you'd only limp pre=flop to reraise all-in later preflop or go all-in on flop. and in general i'd say two pair is probably good for 40-50 BB's pre-flop. if not much more. depends on flop... but i'm all over getting my $$$$ in in this spot. [/ QUOTE ] What do you mean by "10x big blind" ? ... (the size of the pot ??) Mike [/ QUOTE ] You should read Harrington on Holdem. There's three volumes. It will answer questions like you have in this post and also your main post.
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#9
11-28-2007, 02:20 PM
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Re: Another all in play
Fold pre flop > shove > call
But now that you have limped what other cards were you hoping for AA3?? If you call the flop are u actually folding the turn?, are you going to fold the flop you would be losing soooo much value.I guess u could. Bottomline: you gotta win some of these to go really deep in tourneys and this is probably as good a spot as any. Of course for "the rest of the story" he had a set and u lost(just my guess)
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