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  #1  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:01 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default raising limpers vs 3betting

is it correct to have different ranges for 3betting and raising limpers preflop? why? I have been thinking about this alot, and cannot reach a conclusion. my gut instinct is that you should raise limps wider than you would three bet, as the pot does not swell quite so much. thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:22 PM
emKay emKay is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

Their limping range is much wider than their raising range, obv you have to raise their limps w a wider range
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:25 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
Their limping range is much wider than their raising range, obv you have to raise their limps w a wider range

[/ QUOTE ]

okay what if it is 2 different people: one limps every hand he plays, one raises every hand he plays what then?

also for me my raise range = atc, my limp range = junk vs passive fish
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:25 PM
PureDiesel PureDiesel is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:31 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes that is a good thing, isn't it?
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2007, 04:13 PM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're OOP you welcome a bloated pot
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2007, 08:00 PM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're OOP you welcome a bloated pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2007, 08:15 PM
soop soop is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're OOP you welcome a bloated pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this is not intuitive at all. But both creed and cwar seems to agree on it so I'm not going to dismiss the idea just yet. Forgive me if I am misinterpreting y'alls posts.

Read Going beyond jam/fold. Creed's explanation is pretty good.
http://twoplustwo.com/magazine/issue35/bush1107.html

No explanation, but same idea (I think).
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12916655
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:46 PM
creedofhubris creedofhubris is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer not to raise wide OOP, bloats the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you're OOP you welcome a bloated pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The more money you have behind, the more villain can use position. Think about the extreme case where you get allin OOP. That's a super bloated pot, and that favors you.

Now think about the case where you raise enough so that you have one pot-sized bet left. Again, this is good for you: you bet the flop, and you're done. Or you check/fold if you want. Either way, opponent's really not able to use position properly.

About the only time that bloating becomes a serious concern is when, post-reraise, there's >3 pot-sized bets left. Then it can get tricky. But in 100 BB games, that's not gonna be the case.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:08 PM
jay_shark jay_shark is offline
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Default Re: raising limpers vs 3betting

[ QUOTE ]
is it correct to have different ranges for 3betting and raising limpers preflop? why? I have been thinking about this alot, and cannot reach a conclusion. my gut instinct is that you should raise limps wider than you would three bet, as the pot does not swell quite so much. thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If your hand is better on average than the limpers range ; more importantly , if you would have called a button's raise anyway , then there is nothing wrong with raising the pot oop . This is especially true against a player who telegraphs the strength of his hand by his limps .

In theory , we should raise in position with hands slightly worse than average or better since we have a positional advantage . Likewise , we should raise with hands oop with hands that are better than average to compensate for the positional disadvantage .

So to answer your question , if an opponent limps with weak hands but raises with strong hands , then you should raise the limper more often than 3 bet the raiser .
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