Help me fold stuff

Starzinger · #1 03-16-2006, 11:29 AM

First villian is unknown, second one is decent.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (9 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP folds, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, CO caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB calls, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB folds, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Elecman · #2 03-16-2006, 11:51 AM

I play both the same most of the time. I wouldn't bet out on hand 1 100% but to me, looks ok.

Saborion · #3 03-16-2006, 11:58 AM

Hand 1:
I agree with your play the whole way. Ugly river card, but I think you're still good often enough to call here, especially if you add in the information you'll get about his play when you see his hand.

Hand 2:
You only beat QQ/JJ, possibly TT, on the flop. Split with KQ (which is a bit less likely due to the cap) and lose to everything else. Isn't it better to wait until the turn to raise since the BB is in pot as well? By waiting until the turn you'll not only make it more expensive for the possible flushdraw, you'll also get an easier decision if one of your opponents is aggressive. As the hand played out I wouldn't feel too happy about calling the turn bet because I'm likely beat and drawing to somewhere around 2.2 outs or so and the BB is yet to act. I'm weaktight though.

DrGutshot · #4 03-16-2006, 12:56 PM

fwiw I play both the same, but hand 1 feels terrible. Hand 2 is fine I think because he could be going crazy here with a lone Ah, as well as decent PP's w/a heart. I guess waiting for the turn would be ok too - I hate being threebet though...

-DrG

True · #5 03-16-2006, 01:25 PM

Hand 1 :
Can't we bet/fold this river as he is not likely to raise a hand we beat?

Hand 2 :
If we wait for the turn to raise then our equity increases against xh hands that we beat and it is less likely to be raised by worse hands. We charge the TTh JJh QQh hands the most by playing this way.

True

The Bryce · #6 03-16-2006, 01:43 PM

I'd ditch it on the river when in hand 1 and I have no idea why you're raising the flop in hand 2.

Bond18 · #7 03-16-2006, 03:03 PM

I was watching Star as these hands happened, theres one detail he forgot on hand 2. The opponent on his right in hand 2 was down to about his last 100ish dollars, i beleive on the flop he had 80 left. Does his possible desperation affect your play or read on him at all?

Saborion · #8 03-16-2006, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was watching Star as these hands happened, theres one detail he forgot on hand 2. The opponent on his right in hand 2 was down to about his last 100ish dollars, i beleive on the flop he had 80 left. Does his possible desperation affect your play or read on him at all?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would feel much more happy with my hand because of the low stack, but I still think a raise on the turn instead of on the flop is preferred for reasons already stated. The CO will be all in by the river anyway so an added bonus if the BB calls your turn raise is that you may be able to build a sidepot to cover your potential losses against the CO. If the CO would've had enough money to put in a 3-bet on the turn I think the correct course of action actually would be to cap it if the BB is still in the hand.

Dan BRIGHT · #9 03-16-2006, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd ditch it on the river when in hand 1 and I have no idea why you're raising the flop in hand 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

if hes raising these flops when he has overs+ flushdraw, shouldnt he also be raising them with a pair? ftop?

The Bryce · #10 03-16-2006, 06:53 PM

On the flop he's almost splitting any money that goes in against a big A with a FD 50/50. He's making 1/3 of a bet / bet that goes in against something like QQ with a FD. He's getting pumelled when he's re-raised by a better hand. Don't raise the flop. Raising a non-heart turn would be cute, but unecessary. Passive FTW.