3/6LO8 Starts - High Side SB Cards and decent high draw on flop

[franknagaijr]

Should I have been in this hand at all? Any comments on the play of the hand? Thanks.

Poker Stars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is SB with j [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] k [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: t [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises all-in $4.5, UTG+1 calls, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: 4.75BB, Sidepot 1: 0.5BB)
Hero ...

[LetsGetItOn]

Toss it. Does more harm than good.

However, It does have some potential though especially on a flop like that. But your diamond draw is very easily beat here and lets see on the turn you could easily be drawing as thin as only 2 aces for half pot, 2 9s (which could even likely be for only half the pot), 2 8s for only half pot. That is worse case scenario ofcourse, your diamonds could very possibly be good. If the 8 was a 10 it would be a worthwile completion of the SB. High only hands like this are really only worthwhile if all 4 are over 10s (and 9s are alright sometimes if it's cheap). Because if you end up using the 8 your going to either have the ass end of a straight or chopping with a low hand which are 2 things you don't want to do.

[adenosine]

I think this hand is worth a look considering his position. He's getting a great price in the small blind.

Turn is a bad card, I'd maybe check-call, and see what the river brings. You still have plenty of straight outs. Not all of them are as clean as you'd like -- but I think it's worth a look at the river.

[LetsGetItOn]

I don't disagree with how the hand was played, if I called preflop I would play it very similar and I would check/call turn as well. But to sum up and to answer original question, it's somewhat a trouble hand to play postflop and 10 handed I wont even mess with it.

[Buzz]

Frank - Simply stated, K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a very poor starting hand.

That's because it doesn't end up winning its fair share of pots, and when you do pay to see the flop, the hand doesn't match well with very many flops.

You might think you could get out when the hand doesn't match well with the flop, and you can, but you'll be folding after about four out of five flops, and on the one out of five you continue, you won't win enough to make up for the amount you lose on the times you continue but lose added to the amount you lose when you fold after the flop.

In other words, if you play that hand as well as you can play it 10,000 times, even against mediocre or poor opponents, you'll end up losing money.

Maybe you're thinking, "I'm not going to play the hand 10,000 times. I'm only going to play the hand once. And sometimes the hand does win."

That's true. Sometimes the hand does win. And sometimes when you pull the handle on a slot machine, you hit the jackpot.

But although it is true that sometimes the hand ends up winning the pot, usually it does not. On the average, you should expect to lose money with the hand.

It's not absolutely horrible to see the flop for a half small bet from the small blind. You figure to lose that half small bet four times out of five, but one time out of five you'll get a flop with which you can continue. And if you have complete yokels for opponents, maybe you can do all right with the hand on that one time out of five.

It's not absolutely horrible, but it's not good either.

Think about some of the flops you like with this hand. <ul type="square">Trip kings? You have a relatively poor kicker (jack). If you improve to a full house, you have a good chance of winning, but if you don't, you may be beaten by a straight, flush, full house held by an opponent, or simply trip kings with an ace or queen kicker.

Two or three diamonds? You should expect to lose to a higher flush, depending on how your opponents play, somewhere between three and six times as often as you win.[/list]And so it goes. Yes, sometimes the hand wins, but usually it doesn't, and often when you do get a flop you like, you'll tend to get stuck in the pot with an expensive loser.

Now to your question.[ QUOTE ]
Should I have been in this hand at all?

[/ QUOTE ]No.

But if you do see the flop, you should fold after this particular flop.
(The general principle involed here is your primary draw should never be to less than the 2nd nut flush. And unless you play very well, maybe you should make that the nut flush, for safety.)

But if you do continue after the flop, then you should fold after this particular turn.

Buzz