Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot

[Hielko]

Soft live 10/20 E game.

Preflop: I'm UTG with JJ and raise, a solid player UTG+1 3-bets me and a tilting laggy TAG UTG+2 caps. Four other fishy and plain bad players coldcall the cap creating a pot of +/- 28 SB preflop.

Flop comes: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, preflop 3-better checks, preflop capper bets and everyone including me calls (pot 35SB).

Turn comes T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check again, intending to call one or two bets.

Any other way to play this?

[brettbrettr]

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Any other way to play this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Faster.

[James.]

i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players. since you didn't do that bet the turn. you really should be giving more action here based on these players' descriptions as your hand is too good too often. as played you are giving everyone the best and cheapest opportunity possible to draw out when you are ahead.

[Hielko]

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i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer?

I don't like the idea of putting in a lot of money with just a two outer (it's not like I can fold a 2-outer here on the turn, pot odds are HUGE). And given the preflop action it seems that the probability of someone having AA/KK/QQ/TT is very real. On the other hand I also don't like missing value bets when I could and would get so many callers.

[James.]

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[ QUOTE ]
i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, that depends on the opponents and their pf requirements. you said a laggy tilting guy capped pf, right? and all he has done is c-bet when checked to on the flop. why does he have AA/KK/QQ here all the time? this seems like you're thinking scared. you may be drawing to two outs, but frequently you are not. what range do you put the pf 3bettor on before the flop? what range do you put him on after the flop action? what about the tilty LAG/TAG? surely you aren't seeing him as having only QQ+ here based on his description.

[william288]

as what you described regarding UTG+2, i will raise turn to try to shut out UTG+1. the pot is big. i will try best to protect my hand.

[Lunger]

There is a chance that your jacks might be the best hand. The pot is so big on the flop that there is no way to protect your hand and keep people from drawing so the check/call is fine. On the turn, I would lead out and hope the tilting UTG +2 decides to raise you with a diamond draw and/or just overcards and face the field with calling 2 BB to see the river. I think that is your only chance to protect your hand. You may well be have the best hand or at least a jack will win you the pot. Since it's so big you have to continue unless it gets capped back to you.

[onegymrat]

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How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer?

[/ QUOTE ] As James had mentioned, the best person to answer that question is you. So often, correct play is dictated by what you perceive your opponents to hold and what they're thinking.

In general, you would see more benefit than not to make a play for this pot, especially since it's this large. Sure, value betting would be great if you've got passive callers, but with so many bets in, I wouldn't mind taking the pot right now with zero callers. If you run into AA/KK/QQ, so be it, that's poker. However, by not checkraising the flop, imo, you are allowing AQs or AK to catch their overcards cheaply.

In some cases, you may even run into a player who thinks like you, and maybe get them to lay down QQ, when they fear you have AA/KK.

[william288]

lead turn can not protect your hand. if utg+1 has 2 over, he will call. c/r turn and you can count on tilting guy bet turn with any 2

[benwood]

Looks like UTG+ has AK.Check-raise the flop instead of calling & get rid of him.If UTG+2 3-balls it,either cap it & lead the turn or just call & donk him on the turn.There is no reason at this point to think that you don't have the best hand.