Flop and turn play with JJ in a big pot

[Hielko]

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i'm checkraising that flop for starters. reevaluate based on the action and your reads on the players.

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How often do you think I have the best hand and how often will I have a 2 outer?

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well, that depends on the opponents and their pf requirements. you said a laggy tilting guy capped pf, right? and all he has done is c-bet when checked to on the flop. why does he have AA/KK/QQ here all the time? this seems like you're thinking scared. you may be drawing to two outs, but frequently you are not. what range do you put the pf 3bettor on before the flop? what range do you put him on after the flop action? what about the tilty LAG/TAG? surely you aren't seeing him as having only QQ+ here based on his description.

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The preflop capper isn't the only thing to worry about, the 3-bet from UTG+2 must also be a very decent hand (something like TT+, AJs,KQs,AQo+). After he called on the flop I'm pretty sure he isn't holding AA/KK and probably also not QQ and JJ, but that information isn't available for me when I have to act on the flop.

Also the cold calls from the bad players is something to worry about. This was one of the very few preflop capped pots, and even though they are bad players the calling standards for calling 4 cold are a lot higher than calling a single raise or something like that. That said: hands like 66, 78s, Axs are probably within their range, but someone with AA thinking 'someone has probably hit trips on the flop' is also very possible.

But me having the best hand is ofcourse also possible.

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In general, you would see more benefit than not to make a play for this pot, especially since it's this large. Sure, value betting would be great if you've got passive callers, but with so many bets in, I wouldn't mind taking the pot right now with zero callers.[/qouote]
Taking a 7-way capped pot before the river is impossible.

[benwood]

Get it out of your head that it's only "possible" that your hand is best at this point.There is a very decent chance that you have the best hand here.Play accordingly.

[onegymrat]

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Taking a 7-way capped pot before the river is impossible.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with you on this statement, but no where did I mention about everyone folding at all, merely saying that the pot was big enough to take right there without being concerned about squeezing it another few bets. My main point is that you're "worried" about losing value bets but thought the best course of action was to "check/call one or two bets" on the turn, which made little sense. You weren't thinking about protecting your pot.

[Yads]

Check call flop is fine, but I'm check raising turn here all day. The pot is huge, there's a decent chance you have the best hand, try to protect it.

[Lunger]

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lead turn can not protect your hand. if utg+1 has 2 over, he will call. c/r turn and you can count on tilting guy bet turn with any 2

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There is no easy way to protect the hand. A check raise on the flop is giving 15-1 for any cold-callers to continue and bloats the pot on the turn.

A flop call and a turn check-raise will not protect the hand since the likely bettor is UTG+2. If he bets everyone behind him (the fish based on reads) will call getting close to 17-1 or better odds. Your checkraise will only face UTG+1 with 2 bets cold.

A turn lead into the UTG+1 (solid player based on reads) or UTG+2 (TAG but tilting) should result in a raise not a call. Why would 2 tags not raise to buy outs if they have just overcards? If those 2 continue to play on, it will be raised in order to get the fish behind them to fold. Use the 2 tags to protect your hand and lead into them. If they don't raise, then you end up with the same result as a check raise...a huge pot that will be showndown by 4+ people. The lead on the turn at least gives you a chance to protect.

[william288]

i mis-read the hands. i think it's 3-way pot. but actually it's 7-way pot. under this scenario, since there are 12.5bb on turn, looks like there is no way to protect your hands. I may take the passive way, c/c turn and re-eveluate on river

[Hielko]

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I agree with you on this statement, but no where did I mention about everyone folding at all, merely saying that the pot was big enough to take right there without being concerned about squeezing it another few bets. My main point is that you're "worried" about losing value bets but thought the best course of action was to "check/call one or two bets" on the turn, which made little sense. You weren't thinking about protecting your pot.

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I was thinking about protecting my hand, but that's next to impossible. Perhaps I could protect my hand against 2 outers on the turn, but to make that possible I would need to bet and the preflop capper would have to raise me with a worse hand. Altough the preflop capper was tilting I doubt he would raise a worse hand in this spot very often. So if protecting my hand isn't really possible, the main reason left to bet is for value.

[benwood]

After UTG+1 3bets p/f & then checks the flop,it looks like he has overcards,probably AK.If a check-raise on the flop would get rid of him,that would probably help your EV on this hand,as well as maybe give you some info about where you stand in this hand.

There have been several good lines suggested by the posters,& most of them have one thing in common---Try to protect your hand if you can.