A sin?

spacetime · #1 03-02-2006, 12:13 PM

First post in this forum.

I am a guy who is struggling with his faith. I have a problem with the whole heaven and hell thing. If you dont go to church, sin and dont ask for forgiveness you go to hell (in a nutshell).

But isnt God, Himself, committing a sin by sending us to hell? Should He not love thy neighbor? Should He not always forgive? It seems that what people have defined as a sin, God would be committing here too, sending us off to an eternity of pain and suffering.

cambraceres · #2 03-02-2006, 12:23 PM

The "God" of orthodox Christian theology is intrinsically exempt from such judgements. Man has the ability to think in these terms, but as a Christian one must suppress such yearnings to pass judgement on the eternal creator of heaven and earth.

It is a sin to attempt to pass judgement upon God, unless you aren't a Christian, and if you aren't a Christian, your God is not the same one we are speaking of.

Cambraceres

HLMencken · #3 03-02-2006, 12:36 PM

Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned.

from Nietzsche's Daybreak,s. 89, R.J. Hollingdale transl

cambraceres · #4 03-02-2006, 12:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Christianity has done its utmost to close the circle and declared even doubt to be sin. One is supposed to be cast into belief without reason, by a miracle, and from then on to swim in it as in the brightest and least ambiguous of elements: even a glance towards land, even the thought that one perhaps exists for something else as well as swimming, even the slightest impulse of our amphibious nature- is sin! And notice that all this means that the foundation of belief and all reflection on its origin is likewise excluded as sinful. What is wanted are blindness and intoxication and an eternal song over the waves in which reason has drowned.

from Nietzsche's Daybreak,s. 89, R.J. Hollingdale transl

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent articulation of a curious system of beliefs.

Additional understanding of the answer to OP question can be gained by contrasting the God depicted in the old testament, fiery, zealous, and immediately and unbendingly judgemental, With the one in the sermon on the mount. I believe OP has the idea that the old testament God somehow
Counterfeits the other.

As a note I am no longer a Christian, but did briefly, although actively pursue a career in the clergy. Protestant non-denominational to be exact.

Cambraceres

MrMon · #5 03-02-2006, 01:39 PM

Non-Christian that I am, it seems to me that it is man who arbitrarily picks which Christian God to invoke, the hellfire and brimstone God or the forgiving God, depending on what it is that that man wishes to convince you to do.

God, if He exists, is probably not so contradictory. Men of God, on the other hand, have other agendas.

NotReady · #6 03-02-2006, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]

contrasting the God depicted in the old testament, fiery, zealous, and immediately and unbendingly judgemental, With the one in the sermon on the mount.

[/ QUOTE ]

As someone who was considering the ministry you should know how totally wrong this is.

NotReady · #7 03-02-2006, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But isnt God, Himself, committing a sin by sending us to hell

[/ QUOTE ]

Sin is often defined as any transgresson of or want of conformity to the will of God. Obviously this excludes God.

Christian doctrine says that God is light, in Him there is no darkness. He is absolute righeousness, absolute justice, absolute love. If He punishes someone the punishment is deserved.

chipburner · #8 03-02-2006, 01:57 PM

your reasoning is correct. Obviously all these tales of judgement, Heaven, Hell and punishment are absurd. But this is a result of man pondering things and desperately hoping that cruel people will get punished later. Its all rubbish but this doesnt mean you can't believe in God. Im an atheist, but the message of many religions is to lead a 'good' life, where you care about other people. I believe people will be much happier following this path, so religious or not this is something to strive for in life. Enjoy life! and stop worrying about thoughts that people have scribbled down many years ago.

HLMencken · #9 03-02-2006, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
your reasoning is correct. Obviously all these tales of judgement, Heaven, Hell and punishment are absurd. But this is a result of man pondering things and desperately hoping that cruel people will get punished later. Its all rubbish but this doesnt mean you can't believe in God. Im an atheist, but the message of many religions is to lead a 'good' life, where you care about other people. I believe people will be much happier following this path, so religious or not this is something to strive for in life. Enjoy life! and stop worrying about thoughts that people have scribbled down many years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

[applause]

Sharkey · #10 03-02-2006, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the message of many religions is to lead a 'good' life, where you care about other people. I believe people will be much happier following this path, so religious or not this is something to strive for in life.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the absence of a divine law, i.e. under the law of the jungle, your philosophy would be followed mostly by the weak.