These games are hard.

[revlis87]

PokerStars Game #8361940445: Hold'em No Limit ($10/$20) - 2007/02/09 - 21:14:04 (ET)
Table 'Tekmessa' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sublime8700 ($2878 in chips)
Seat 2: idoubleL ($1910 in chips)
Seat 3: Vaga_Lion ($3020 in chips)
Seat 4: ZhugeL1ang ($1990 in chips)
Seat 5: cptaincrunch ($2000 in chips)
Seat 6: copi ($738 in chips)
idoubleL: posts small blind $10
Vaga_Lion: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sublime8700 [Tc Th]
ZhugeL1ang: folds
cptaincrunch: folds
copi: folds
Sublime8700: raises $60 to $80
idoubleL: folds
Vaga_Lion: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [4h 5d 8d]
Vaga_Lion: bets $120
Sublime8700: calls $120
*** TURN *** [4h 5d 8d] [2h]
Vaga_Lion: bets $320
Sublime8700: calls $320
*** RIVER *** [4h 5d 8d 2h] [2s]
Vaga_Lion: checks
Sublime8700: bets $720
Vaga_Lion: raises $1780 to $2500 and is all-in
Sublime8700: calls $1638 and is all-in
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5766 | Rake $3
Board [4h 5d 8d 2h 2s]

I don't know much about villian cept that hes a winner. Is this call just flipping coins on the river? OR is it clear EV one way or the other.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars Game #8361940445: Hold'em No Limit ($10/$20) - 2007/02/09 - 21:14:04 (ET)
Table 'Tekmessa' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sublime8700 ($2878 in chips)
Seat 2: idoubleL ($1910 in chips)
Seat 3: Vaga_Lion ($3020 in chips)
Seat 4: ZhugeL1ang ($1990 in chips)
Seat 5: cptaincrunch ($2000 in chips)
Seat 6: copi ($738 in chips)
idoubleL: posts small blind $10
Vaga_Lion: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sublime8700 [Tc Th]
ZhugeL1ang: folds
cptaincrunch: folds
copi: folds
Sublime8700: raises $60 to $80
idoubleL: folds
Vaga_Lion: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [4h 5d 8d]
Vaga_Lion: bets $120
Sublime8700: calls $120
*** TURN *** [4h 5d 8d] [2h]
Vaga_Lion: bets $320
Sublime8700: calls $320
*** RIVER *** [4h 5d 8d 2h] [2s]
Vaga_Lion: checks
Sublime8700: bets $720
Vaga_Lion: raises $1780 to $2500 and is all-in
Sublime8700: calls $1638 and is all-in
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5766 | Rake $3
Board [4h 5d 8d 2h 2s]

I don't know much about villian cept that hes a winner. Is this call just flipping coins on the river? OR is it clear EV one way or the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I bet the river it would be to induce the bluff crai.

[spino1i]

Betting river = bad idea against tricky aggro player, just check behind.

[HUD-BOT]

I can't imagine checking this behind. Gotta bet to induce that crai from AQs.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting river = bad idea against tricky aggro player, just check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a joke right?

[Phresh]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting river = bad idea against tricky aggro player, just check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's Betting river against tricky aggro player = good, you just have to be prepared to call.

[spino1i]

I mean I dont see him betting the pot into you twice with top pair, so I dont think thats really part of his range. I think he's either got a monster or nothing. I guess if he's a little too liberal with his river check-raise bluffs you can bet here, but betting to get called by a weaker hand is prolly not a good idea.

[DJ Sensei]

if you're very aggressive, and generally don't let the flop/turn go unraised with a set or 2 pair or such, then he's more likely to bluff here because he thinks he can push you off a hand like TT.

If not, and slowplaying sets on board like this is not unusual for you (and known to him) then i'd be more concerned.


I think you should most likely bet the river if theres a very good chance he either
a) almost always calls with worse, and rarely checkraises light (A8, 99, 77, JJ, etc.)
or
b) will checkraise with non-showdownable hands like 9d7d, AdXd, etc. because he reads you for weakness in the form of the hands you actually have, or busted draw bluffs (that may be ahead of his smaller busted draw bluffs).

also you have to be aware of which of these is the case before it happens.

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean I dont see him betting the pot into you twice with top pair, so I dont think thats really part of his range. I think he's either got a monster or nothing. I guess if he's a little too liberal with his river check-raise bluffs you can bet here, but betting to get called by a weaker hand is prolly not a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

even if we hadn't just improved to beat 2pair on the river this would be a bet, but since we did its a bet by a whole lot

[whitelime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting river = bad idea against tricky aggro player, just check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a joke right?

[/ QUOTE ]