Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only question we should concern ourselves with is process. The punishment absolutely fits the alleged crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

How can anyone be satisified with the way they handle things?


[/ QUOTE ]

QMFT. (mostly)
The part we run up against eventually is "we agree to the t&c which makes this possible."
That doesn't mean we have to like it.
I still have a problem with the "lolol if you weren't a bot this wouldn't have happened. No way it would happen to me because I don't bot" crowd.
Is it less likely that if you never break the t&c this will happen? Sure.
That isn't the same as saying bots get caught and non-bots don't though.
Is it more likely BeatMe is a bot because FullTilt says it's so. Probably. But the degree of uncertainty about their process, and perceived mistakes they have possibly made in the past leave it uncertain for many.

Again... how many people were sure there was something shady going on in the NL bot case (by quoting similar "must be bots" statistics and tells etc)... and Full Tilt said "hey we really don't know."
The only hope we have is that as Teddy asked, that they actively also seek contrary evidence and consider it the other way also.
That is to say their test should be one not of a preponderance of the evidence pointing towards botting, but rather one where there is basically according to ALL evidence no other reasonable explanation.
I believe bot detecting and banning should be that strict of a test/criteria, that they should actually seek to disprove the bot is a bot also.
They seem to have at least attempted that in the NL case via communication with the players.

[cwar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other question I haven't seen anyone pose here is.... For how long was she running a bot? If someone plays legitimiately for 5 years then decides to run a bot for 1 day or 2 does this warrant the seizure of all their funds? Is Full Tilt 100% sure that all her profits were acquired through use of a bot?

[/ QUOTE ]

From my perspective, the use of a bot isn't a minor league offense, and any proven use should result in dire consequences, even if only for a short period.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if someone with 70k in their account runs a bot for an hour, you would take the 70k from them?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you wouldnt?

[Emperor]

I have reviewed all of my hands with Mr.Gatorade and concluded that he is running a bot.

He also has invented the best cover ever, which is to become chummy with the collusion/bot detection teams of many Online sites, and then accuse other players whom he can't beat of being bots.

Luckily?? I couldn't beat his bot.

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone suggest what would satisfy these three constraints, which I think are all very important:

1) The player is entitled to defend herself and should be given reasonable means to do so.

2) The poker community, especially the high stakes community, needs to feel confident that spurious accusations will not result in the seizure of their funds.

3) Current or potential cheaters should not benefit from the information divulged here.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely correct. Currently #3 is being served at the total expense of the other two

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other question I haven't seen anyone pose here is.... For how long was she running a bot? If someone plays legitimiately for 5 years then decides to run a bot for 1 day or 2 does this warrant the seizure of all their funds? Is Full Tilt 100% sure that all her profits were acquired through use of a bot?

[/ QUOTE ]

From my perspective, the use of a bot isn't a minor league offense, and any proven use should result in dire consequences, even if only for a short period.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if someone with 70k in their account runs a bot for an hour, you would take the 70k from them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. They were engaged in the use of a computer program to defraud others of large sums of money. Should I have sympathy? No way. My only concern with this case is that there has been no reasonable process for Beatme to protest and have an opportunity to respond to the accusations. If she is guilty, (or if anyone else is guilty), they should be drawn and quartered after a fair process.

[Art_Cooleigh]

The first impression I had of Mr. Gatorade and his previous posts was a person who had an obsession. He comes across as the type of person we might see future "This site is rigged" posts from. My guess is he had some bad beats in the past and he blamed a bot. He thought about it so much he has convinced himself it is true and is now obsessed with it. For somebody to put as much effort in to this as he has and create a website about it, he comes across as a madman.

Do yourself a favor Mr Gatorade and get out of the house once in awhile, take a break from poker and these forums, you need it!

[Gregatron]

[ QUOTE ]
The first impression I had of Mr. Gatorade and his previous posts was a person who had an obsession. He comes across as the type of person we might see future "This site is rigged" posts from. My guess is he had some bad beats in the past and he blamed a bot. He thought about it so much he has convinced himself it is true and is now obsessed with it. For somebody to put as much effort in to this as he has and create a website about it, he comes across as a madman.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMGWTFLOLGTFOBBQ~!!!!!!!!@!!1111

Most of you people here just don't get it. Let me lay it out for you:

The integrity, accuracy, validity, and personal hygiene habits of Mr. Gatorade are not the point.

Whether of not Beatme1 uses a poker bot, another software tool, or Optimus Prime himself to play her hands on FT is not the point.

I don't give a damn about Mr. Gatorade's "lies," or Beatme1's setup. Guilt or innocence in this instance is completely of peripheral, secondary importance.

A few of you (El Hombre Grande, Bobo Fett, and a few others [sorry I don't mention you all]) understand this. If your primary concern on this issue is guilt or innocence, then you are not thinking clearly.

Read carefully, because this is important. Ready? Okay: Full Tilt poker is showing they are willing to take your money without offering a full explanation, evidence, or any sort of appeals process.

Some of you guys might want to reread that to let it sink in.

Do you trust FT this much? False positives do happen. Those of you that have not read the thread that TeddyFBI linked above, I suggest you do.

[cwar]

FT said they would show Mike Haven the evidence and he could report for us, this seems perfectly fine as we entered into a contract that would not even allow us this. I have no problem with how FT handled this all this 'sky is falling' attitude is pretty stupid IMO.

[Wahoo73]

BeatMe-

Although this posted e-mail string is lengthier than your original post, it is still somewhat confusing to me due to various redundancies and the inclusion of what appear to be your responses to some, but not all, of FTP's emails. Nonetheless, they do shed a little more light on how this matter has been handled thus far.

Are you absolutely certain that the e-mail dated Thu, 24 May 2007 15:17:07 -0700 (PDT) was the very first e-mail you received regarding this? In other words, are you claiming that prior to this e-mail you had no other notice from FTP that you were the subject of any investigation or that your account was in jeopardy? Are you also claiming that this entire matter was investigated and concluded over the short period of just six days, i.e., 24-29 May?

If indeed this is what you are claiming, and if indeed this is the truth, then I'm strongly inclined to agree that FTP's procedures of investigation and notification in this case are highly questionable. However, if there are other e-mails you exchanged with FTP regarding this matter prior to May 24, I suggest you share those with us as well.

[BeatMe1]

[ QUOTE ]
The [censored] point I'm trying to make that idiots keep missing is: ATTEMPT TO PROVIDE SOME PROOF OF NOT BEING A BOT INSTEAD OF MAKING THIS THREAD INTO [censored] FIGHT BETWEEN BEATME/MIKE AND WHINERS/FTP.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think I have answered every reasonable question that has been asked in this thread. I think that you are actually the one who is missing the point. Being accused of running a bot is a very hard thing to defend against. It is actually similar to trying to prove that you are not a witch. For example: unbiased witnesses can observe that while they are watching you did not cast a spell that they could detect. But here’s the whammy, maybe the minute they left your side you cast a spell and they just missed it. My point is this, it is effortless to accuse a player of using a bot, but it is almost impossible for a player to prove the other side of the argument. The only way that I know that is reasonable is to observe the player playing and use tracking software to compare her observed play with her historical play. But many people that have responded to this thread do not believe that even watching me play (in person) the exact same game that poker tracker has recorded me playing historically would be sufficient proof that I am merely a good HU player.

[ QUOTE ]
The whole process arguement is getting [censored] nowhere and it looks to me more like BeatMe created this thread to damage FTP/Mike's rep rather than to prove her innocence and clear her own. I know clearing my name would be my first priority, then I would look at revenge.


[/ QUOTE ]
One of my reasons for creating this thread was to cause FTP so much pain that they would decide to talk to me. If I can’t speak to FTP I have no chance to get my money back or of clearing my name without going through an expensive legal process. I think my strategy is reasonable.