Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

[BeatMe1]

[ QUOTE ]
Although I'm squarely in the "undecided" camp on this particular imbroglio, I am somewhat suspicious of the e-mail exchange with FTP that BeatMe posted inasmuch as she provided no dates and there appear to be gaps in both context and chronology. I'd suggest to BeatMe that she might bolster her argument by posting a complete, unedited and chronological record of all communication between her and FTP regarding this matter.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Wahoo73,

I have substituted BeatMe1 for my name and email address and removed links to my email account. Everything else is exactly the way I received it. I have only included FTP’s emails as they reference my emails and all of the correspondence between us is included. If anyone questions that these emails are incomplete please ask Full Tilt Poker to verify the information.

Thu, 24 May 2007 15:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Full Tilt Poker - Support" <support@fulltiltpoker.com>
To: BeatMe1
Subject: Full Tilt Poker - Your Account (KMM2219542I21567L0KM)


Hello BeatMe1,

It has come to our attention that you are attempting to defraud players
on Full Tilt Poker.

In order to maintain the security of our site and protect our players,
Full Tilt Poker has a zero tolerance policy for fraudulent activity.
Any
funds that remain in your Full Tilt Poker account will be forfeited to
Full Tilt Poker in order to compensate the players you have victimized.

You are no longer welcome to play at Full Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com




Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:43:54 -0400
Subject: Full Tilt Poker - Funds Transfer Request
From: cashier@fulltiltpoker.com
To: BeatMe1


This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Your Player ID: BeatMe1
Date and Time: 2007-05-24 18:43:50
Transfer Number: 00E0F5DC
Transfer To: CollusionCredit
Amount: $70899.00

Status: PROCESSING

Your transfer request has been received. Processing of your
transfer request may take between 24-48 hours.

For further assistance, please visit our website at:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/payprocess.php
or contact cashier@fulltiltpoker.com.

Thank you for playing at Full Tilt Poker

==




Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:44:04 -0400
Subject: Full Tilt Poker - Funds Transfer Request
From: cashier@fulltiltpoker.com
To: BeatMe1


This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Your Player ID: BeatMe1
Date and Time: 2007-05-24 18:43:56
Transfer Number: 00E0F5DC
Payment Method: Transfer
Amount: $70899.00

Status: DECLINED

Your transfer request has been declined because one or both of the
players involved do not meet the minimum player-to-player transfer
requirements.

The sender must meet the following requirements:

* Request must be a minimum of $5.00
* NETeller users must have successful deposit history.
* FirePay users must have at least 60 days of successful
deposit history.
* Credit card and ePassporte users must have at least
90 days of successful deposit history.

The receiver of the transfer must meet this requirement:

* Completed account registration with the mailing address
completely filled out.

If you plan to make more money transfer requests in the future,
you may want to open a NETeller account. Because of their deposit
policies, we can accept a transfer almost instantly.

For further assistance in transfering funds from your account,
please visit our website at:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/payprocess.php
or contact cashier@fulltiltpoker.com.

==



Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:44:14 -0400
Subject: Full Tilt Poker - Funds Transfer Request
From: cashier@fulltiltpoker.com
To: BeatMe1


This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Your Player ID: BeatMe1
Date and Time: 2007-05-24 18:44:14
Transfer Number: 00E0F5EE
Transfer To: CollusionCredit
Amount: $70899.00

Status: PROCESSING

Your transfer request has been received. Processing of your
transfer request may take between 24-48 hours.

For further assistance, please visit our website at:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/payprocess.php
or contact cashier@fulltiltpoker.com.

Thank you for playing at Full Tilt Poker

==



Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 18:44:45 -0400
Subject: Full Tilt Poker - Funds Transfer Request
From: cashier@fulltiltpoker.com
To: BeatMe1


This is an automated message sent from Full Tilt Poker.

Your Player ID: BeatMe1
Date and Time: 2007-05-24 18:44:36
Transfer Number: 00E0F5EE
Payment Method: Transfer
Amount: $70899.00

Status: APPROVED

Your transfer has been approved.

Thank you for playing at Full Tilt Poker

==




Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Full Tilt Poker - Support" <support@fulltiltpoker.com>
To: BeatMe1
Subject: Re: Full Tilt Poker - Your Account (KMM2221950I21567L0KM)


Hello BeatMe1,

We have detected an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating illegal
bot use.

For the protection of our players we have closed your account. All
funds
remaining in your Full Tilt Poker accounts have been seized in order to
compensate the victims of your bot use.

In order to protect the integrity of future bot investigations we will
not be releasing the details of the investigation.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hello,

Your email sounds like it came from a mad man. Everything you are
saying
is false. I have been a good customer for over a year AND NOW YOU SAY
YOU ARE GOING TO STEAL MY MONEY BECAUSE YOU THINK I ATTEMPTED TO
DEFRAUD
PLAYERS. HOW SO? How did I victimize players? How did I attempt to
defraud players? By being a good player? Please be so kind as to give
me
the facts behind your irronious accusations. Are you really saying that
Fulltilt will not tolerate winning players?

Your final statement is halarious. First you slandar me, then you steal
70k of my money and to cap it all off you tell me I am no longer
welcome
to play at Fulltilt. That's like a bank robber saying he would not
trust
the bank that he just robbed.

BeatMe1
Full Tilt Poker - Support <support@fulltiltpoker.com> wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

It has come to our attention that you are attempting to defraud players
on Full Tilt Poker.

In order to maintain the security of our site and protect our players,
Full Tilt Poker has a zero tolerance policy for fraudulent activity.
Any
funds that remain in your Full Tilt Poker account will be forfeited to
Full Tilt Poker in order to compensate the players you have victimized.

You are no longer welcome to play at Full Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------





Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 09:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Full Tilt Poker - Support" <support@fulltiltpoker.com>
To: BeatMe1
Subject: Re: Full Tilt Poker - Your Account (KMM2234926I21567L0KM)


Hello BeatMe1,

First, understand that we do not take actions without substantial and
irrefutable evidence. We have experts in every applicable field that
scrutinize decisions of this nature before we take them, and Full Tilt
Poker stands behind our decision 100%.

Again, we will not be discussing the facts of this case so as to not
jeopardize future investigations, and your money will not be refunded.

Your account is permanently closed and you are no longer welcome on
Full
Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hi,

I did not use any software to help me play. What ever system you are
using to detect assisted play or as you put it "bot use" does not work.
I will play anyone you would like me to in person and you can see that
I
play exacty the way I played at FullTilt.

I would like to speak to the poker manager. How can I get in touch with
him?

To recap, I did not ever run a bot and what you are doing is wrong.
Please review my hand history and get back to me ASAP.

BeatMe1

Full Tilt Poker - Support <support@fulltiltpoker.com> wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

We have detected an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating illegal
bot use.

For the protection of our players we have closed your account. All
funds
remaining in your Full Tilt Poker accounts have been seized in order to
compensate the victims of your bot use.

In order to protect the integrity of future bot investigations we will
not be releasing the details of the investigation.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hello,

Your email sounds like it came from a mad man. Everything you are
saying
is false. I have been a good customer for over a year AND NOW YOU SAY
YOU ARE GOING TO STEAL MY MONEY BECAUSE YOU THINK I ATTEMPTED TO
DEFRAUD
PLAYERS. HOW SO? How did I victimize players? How did I attempt to
defraud players? By being a good player? Please be so kind as to give
me
the facts behind your irronious accusations. Are you really saying that
Fulltilt will not tolerate winning players?

Your final statement is halarious. First you slandar me, then you steal
70k of my money and to cap it all off you tell me I am no longer
welcome
to play at Fulltilt. That's like a bank robber saying he would not
trust
the bank that he just robbed.

BeatMe1

Full Tilt Poker - Support wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

It has come to our attention that you are attempting to defraud players
on Full Tilt Poker.

In order to maintain the security of our site and protect our players,
Full Tilt Poker has a zero tolerance policy for fraudulent activity.
Any
funds that remain in your Full Tilt Poker account will be forfeited to
Full Tilt Poker in order to compensate the players you have victimized.

You are no longer welcome to play at Full Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------





Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.




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Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Full Tilt Poker - Support" <support@fulltiltpoker.com>
To: BeatMe1
Subject: Re: Full Tilt Poker - Your Account (KMM2237523I21567L0KM)


Hello BeatMe1,

Once again, the evidence we have against you is substantial and our
decision is final. Your account will not be reopened, nor will your
balance be refunded.

This case is closed and is not up for debate. If you wish to further
pursue this matter you can contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/

I have had many discussions with our poker security manager regarding
this case and we are of a single mind on this issue. That being said, I
have forwarded your emails on to him and if he wishes to discuss this
matter he will contact you at his earliest convenience.

Best of luck in your future endeavors,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Message Follows:
------------------------


Hi,

This is unreal. You do not have irrefutable evidence because I did not
use a bot. Whatever tools you use to detect bots did not work in my
case. Please reveiw my hands again because you are wrong. If I used a
bot as you say than I would not be able to play the same game in person
as I do online. I'll play any of your pros.

I want to speak to the poker room manager. That is the least you can do
before you rob me of over 70k. How can I speak to the poker manager?

BeatMe1

Full Tilt Poker - Support <support@fulltiltpoker.com> wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

First, understand that we do not take actions without substantial and
irrefutable evidence. We have experts in every applicable field that
scrutinize decisions of this nature before we take them, and Full Tilt
Poker stands behind our decision 100%.

Again, we will not be discussing the facts of this case so as to not
jeopardize future investigations, and your money will not be refunded.

Your account is permanently closed and you are no longer welcome on
Full
Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hi,

I did not use any software to help me play. What ever system you are
using to detect assisted play or as you put it "bot use" does not work.
I will play anyone you would like me to in person and you can see that
I
play exacty the way I played at FullTilt.

I would like to speak to the poker manager. How can I get in touch with
him?

To recap, I did not ever run a bot and what you are doing is wrong.
Please review my hand history and get back to me ASAP.

BeatMe1

Full Tilt Poker - Support wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

We have detected an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating illegal
bot use.

For the protection of our players we have closed your account. All
funds
remaining in your Full Tilt Poker accounts have been seized in order to
compensate the victims of your bot use.

In order to protect the integrity of future bot investigations we will
not be releasing the details of the investigation.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Hello,

Your email sounds like it came from a mad man. Everything you are
saying
is false. I have been a good customer for over a year AND NOW YOU SAY
YOU ARE GOING TO STEAL MY MONEY BECAUSE YOU THINK I ATTEMPTED TO
DEFRAUD
PLAYERS. HOW SO? How did I victimize players? How did I attempt to
defraud players? By being a good player? Please be so kind as to give
me
the facts behind your irronious accusations. Are you really saying that
Fulltilt will not tolerate winning players?

Your final statement is halarious. First you slandar me, then you steal
70k of my money and to cap it all off you tell me I am no longer
welcome
to play at Fulltilt. That's like a bank robber saying he would not
trust
the bank that he just robbed.

BeatMe1

Full Tilt Poker - Support wrote:
Hello BeatMe1,

It has come to our attention that you are attempting to defraud players
on Full Tilt Poker.

In order to maintain the security of our site and protect our players,
Full Tilt Poker has a zero tolerance policy for fraudulent activity.
Any
funds that remain in your Full Tilt Poker account will be forfeited to
Full Tilt Poker in order to compensate the players you have victimized.

You are no longer welcome to play at Full Tilt Poker.

Regards,

Jeremy E
Collusion Investigator
Full Tilt Poker Team

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please remember that no one will ever ask you for your
password or account information, not even support. Please
use good common sense and keep your password a secret.

Learn, Chat, and Play with the Pros.
100% Initial Deposit Bonus - www.fulltiltpoker.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------





Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.




Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
mail, news, photos & more.




Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

[BeatMe1]

[ QUOTE ]
And I trust that they would not take this kind of action without one. We have to assume that they would not confiscate our money without one. If you can't make yourself trust them then you are a fool for leaving your money there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not so long ago I would have said the same thing.

[KurtSF]

BeatMe, to reiterate...

No software assistance? No PokerTracker, no GameTime, no AHK scripts, nothing running on your computer but FTP when you are playing?

[BeatMe1]

[ QUOTE ]
Poster: Injection
Subject: Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

I think it's highly probable that BeatMe1's intentions for creating this thread were not to prove her innocence, but solely to create a [censored] of backlash for FTP out of revenge for their findings.


[/ QUOTE ]
Mr. Gatorade is the one I want to punish the most. My intentions are to show everyone that Mr. Gatorade is a liar and a fool. He has been falsely accusing me of being a bot for years. It is my belief that he used 2+2 extensively to bad rap me so I want to use the same forum to give him a taste of his own medicine. Gatorade knows I am a very strong limit HU player. That’s why he has not set a date to play me. He is clearing the online poker field because he can only make a profit playing weak players and I am in his way.

Full Tilt is almost as much of a victim in this situation as I am but I want them to see that there is a cost of their improper actions. They can’t be allowed to say “In order to maintain the security of our site and protect our players, Full Tilt Poker has a zero tolerance policy for fraudulent activity. Any funds that remain in your Full Tilt Poker account will be forfeited to Full Tilt Poker in order to compensate the players you have victimized. You are no longer welcome to play at Full Tilt Poker.” without at least listening to my side of things. When I read their words what I get is this: Mr. Gatorade has screwed with us endlessly and we can’t take it anymore so the only thing we can do in this situation is to bar you, steal your money and end all correspondence with you.


[ QUOTE ]
Maybe she feels she has a right to do this since they've confiscated 70k from her, but in my mind if she really wanted to prove she wasn't using a bot, there's other courses of action such as those mentioned in my previous post (videos of playing/pics of PC etc.).


[/ QUOTE ]
I think the community would say the videos and pics don’t prove anything. I think FTP observing me playing 3 or 4 games simultaneously for long periods of time would be much stronger evidence of what I say is true.

[ QUOTE ]
The way she's responded really just looks to me like "Well you caught me botting and took my 70k, now let's see what damage I can do to you". Judging by the heated arguements in this thread, the ploy seems to be working well.


[/ QUOTE ]
How would an innocent person act? Would a truly innocent person just take it?

[BeatMe1]

[ QUOTE ]
Poster: KurtSF
Subject: Re: Mr. Gatorade’s Lies cost me over 70k at Full Tilt

BeatMe, to reiterate...

No software assistance? No PokerTracker, no GameTime, no AHK scripts, nothing running on your computer but FTP when you are playing?


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. I played every hand myself without any help from any program.

[Bill Haywood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Suppose that Beatme1 has a bot. Suppose also that Beatme1 can play exactly like the bot she has.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's actually quite unlikely. We are not talking about some low-limit set-farming nitbot. The algorithms required to produce a strong high-level LHE player would be quite complicated. There is a world of difference between programming these algorithms and actually executing the algorithms yourself with the exact same tempo as the bot. Especially if it involves multitabling for an extended period of time.

Even if Lisa is a very strong player who contributed all the poker expertise to her alleged bot the difference would probably be obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pacing? A smart botter would vary the timing of actions.

Identical play? The bot is going to make many decisions on a percentage basis -- 30% of the time it raises in a certain situation, 70% it folds. So we would never expect identical play, and there would always be doubt about the results. This doesn't sound nearly as firm an approach as the evidence they supposedly have on her.

Are there other things that would clearly distinguish a bot from its programer?

[MinusEV]

[ QUOTE ]

I do have plenty of cash sitting in a FT account and do not feel this way at all. I have little doubt the explanations are reasonable, they're just not presented to us for good reason. I also have little doubt that if FT ever investigated my play for any reason there would be nothing suspicious ever found. For that reason, I'm willing to take my chances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I'm curious: What exactly has FTP done to deserve this blind, unquestioning faith and trust? We don't know who investigates this, we don't know how they investigate it, we don't even know if they investigate it... "It must be true because they say so" is kinda like debating with the Christians who will tell you "It is true because the Bible says so"...

Regardless of how highly one thinks of FTP, I find it difficult to understand why someone would be so convinced they are infallible.

[Jzo19]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I do have plenty of cash sitting in a FT account and do not feel this way at all. I have little doubt the explanations are reasonable, they're just not presented to us for good reason. I also have little doubt that if FT ever investigated my play for any reason there would be nothing suspicious ever found. For that reason, I'm willing to take my chances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must admit I'm curious: What exactly has FTP done to deserve this blind, unquestioning faith and trust? We don't know who investigates this, we don't know how they investigate it, we don't even know if they investigate it... "It must be true because they say so" is kinda like debating with the Christians who will tell you "It is true because the Bible says so"...

Regardless of how highly one thinks of FTP, I find it difficult to understand why someone would be so convinced they are infallible.

[/ QUOTE ]

after the WPEX fiasco (when they accused , some1 being a bot and got it wrong) im pretty much skeptical whenever some one is accused of being a bot without any facts ....

[El_Hombre_Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you people are hilarious. Why do any of you think you are OWED an explanation from FT? This has nothing to do directly with you. The only parties involved are BeatMe1 and FT. Now, if I were BeatMe1 I would certainly want and demand at least some sort of explanation as this is her money. But for outsiders to jump up and down demanding an explanation from FT otherwise it's stealing, is downright laughable.

It's their world.(FT, PS, UB, etc.) We have to play by their rules, otherwise it's back to video games.

BO

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is what's "downright laughable." LOL at the idea that you should just sit by and watch the next guy's $70,000 get seized without an opportunity for him to defend himself, because, well after all, it wasn't your money. If you could see beyond the nose on your face you would certainly realize that it could be your money, and you could be innocent, but there is no process or procedure for you to object and present your side of the story. This very message board has been instrumental in at least two instances in getting an incorrect "seizure" reversed. And if you don't think that FTP account holders have every right to know exactly and precisely what rules apply to seizure of accounts you are even more foolish than your ill- conceived attack.

You can return to video games. Our rake dollars are what drives this whole industry. I'll continue to play poker AND support the idea that ALL account holders should be treated fairly, with a opportunity to heard in a meaningful fashion. This is indeed a "public question" for this "public forum."

[faux_pas]

[ QUOTE ]
the more i think about it, the more i think redgar3 on pokerroom (same person/bot as beatme1) used a bot at least some of the time. i wasnt suspicious at the time because i didnt know bots really existed. i probably played more hands with redgar3 than anyone, over like 3 or 4 years, and i was on pokerroom more than about anyone.

there was a regular HORRIBLE (i can't stress how bad)heads up player for a year or two that everyone chased. he would bounce around from hu table to hu table. there were about 6 of us that would chase him, and open up as many hu tables as possible and hope he came to us and get on lists of tables that he was on. redgar usually did not. he would keep his one table open (at 3 different limits) and would almost never make an effort to play with him. also, when this fish was around, people would sit in redgar's table to block it so the fish couldnt sit with him. a real player would get up and open a new table or yell at him or SOMETHING. redgar did nothing.

also, when redgar busted out, he wouldnt rebuy for a few minutes usually.

at first, i remember saying to myself, man, this guy just doesnt adjust. for example, if i limped on the button, he would raise 99% of the time, so if i had a good hand, i limped and 3 bet and he never learned. after about a million hands together, that stopped, but it took a very long time.

no, none of this is proof that he was using a bot, but i do find it suspicous.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is pretty damning "evidence".

suzy, i don't think i ever played you at pokerroom, but i played a few others. i actually thought only1keanu was a bot before i knew bots were possible. that thought ever cross your mind?