How to stop the bleeding

proudpapa · #1 10-05-2007, 11:36 AM

I'm on the worst losing streak of my short poker life. Down $75 over about 1,500 hands -- I know that's not a lot of hands or a lot of money to some people, but for my roll it is. I'm playing what I thought was TAG poker, with my numbers reading 20/14/1.5 over that stretch (I have freaking mac poker tracker, so sorry, no graph).

What immediate steps should I take to turn this around? I'm tilting hard right now, so I'm going to take a few days off before I play again. When i start playing again, though, I'm not sure if I should loosen up. Playing TAG at NL10 is killing me. I wait and wait for a decent hand, raise and get folds because everyone knows I'm only playing solid starting hands. If I get a call and miss the flop, I'll 85% of the time c-bet, get a call or a raise and be forced to fold later. It just whittles away my buy-ins.

IF I do hit, I'll have hands like these where clearly I'm underbetting, but I'm freaked out about scaring villain away and not extracting the most I can:

Full Tilt Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $10.15
BTN: $5.10
SB: $12.75
BB: $12.30
UTG: $6.80

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN folds, SB calls $0.35, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.20) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB bets $1.20, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($3.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets $3.60, Hero calls $3.60

River: ($10.80) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets $7.10 and is All-In, Hero folds

Full Tilt Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (MP): $11.20
CO: $14.80
BTN: $5.25
SB: $9.45
BB: $4.65
UTG: $5.70

Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, SB calls $0.45, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.20) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, SB calls $0.60

Turn: ($3) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, SB calls $1

River: ($5) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB bets $2.20, Hero calls $2.20

johnnydrama · #2 10-05-2007, 11:51 AM

Time off is wise. Use bankroll management and drop down if you have to.

Mix up your game if you are getting read too easily which would be surprising at the micros. Maybe on or two players at the table are paying good attention.

Hand 1: Got to raise the flop bet. If he is on a draw you want to punish him. If he has a lower set or 2 pair you want to get all the chips in asap.

Hand 2: You gave him the right odds with your small turn bet. He played it right. Bet so they make mistakes. A small pot won is better than a big pot lost because you were the one making a mistake.

Honestly, if you are worried about your bankroll, drop down so you play comfortably and gain your confidence back.

proudpapa · #3 10-05-2007, 11:52 AM

Second hand was played awful now that I look at it. Villain was throwing a lot of those weak bets out but folded quickly to any kind of raise. When he called, I assumed he had some sort of ace. But then I should have bet the turn a lot stronger -- that was just stupid stupid.

proudpapa · #4 10-05-2007, 11:54 AM

I can't drop to lower stakes on FTP.

thoman8r · #5 10-05-2007, 12:05 PM

Judging from your stats and those two hands, you need to be more aggressive post-flop. Post a screenshot of your full pokertracker stats, that'll help even more.

kayaker · #6 10-05-2007, 12:17 PM

Stop pricing them in to chase their draws.

Hand 1: Raise the flop. Make it $4 and he has to fold his draw. If he calls, you're really hurting on the turn and can fold there.

Hand 2: Raise more on the flop. Make it at least $1.50, but an overbet is fine. Bet the pot on the turn.

The big thing here is that players at this level will frequently chase their draws. You need to price them out of it. If they still call, rest assured that in the long run they are making a mistake and you will profit from it.

ATM · #7 10-05-2007, 12:35 PM

Personally i think Hand 1 is disgusting but others may disagree. Hand 2 you said it yourself you've got to make bigger re raises in those spots. Tilting is the one thing in poker I'm pretty good at. I still do it but not as bad as i used to be. Heres what I do. If I'm taking a smashing at the tables where my good hands don't hold up
1) 1 week off from poker
2) go and re read some poker books Theory of Poker, Hold em poker for advanced players etc. This means if you are not playing the game it is still fresh in your head.
3) Throughout my time off poker I look over the hands where I was getting beat and try to figure out if there is any way i can improve the way i play them for next time. If not thats a positive thing.
4) Sit at 1 table and play your usual game. If you take another beat and you feel a really bad case of tilt coming on you'll just have to repeat the above until your tilt tolerance increases.

As for your play I think you should just loosen up around the CO and the Button. I like to raise a lot on both of those seats make C-bets and fold to any resistance. If people see that then when you have a big hand there more willing to play back at you if they think your a push over.

Dont know if that helps i hope it does cause Tilt is the cancer of poker if you ask me. It starts off small and spreads real quick if its not treated in time.

Xanthro · #8 10-05-2007, 02:01 PM

You are too passive post flop.

Pre-flop, learn to play some hands that you'd normally throw away. Open up a bit in position, and take down some blinds. You're not doing this to gain money as much as ensuring you get some action when you have a hand.

You have to raise more. Hand one is really bad. That flop has huge draws, you want to take it down here, or price the draws so heavily they make a mistake in calling. Hand two, your reraise let's him call $.60 to win $2.4. He's going to call, because he has the odds on any draw. Then on the turn you gave him 4-1 odds again. You know you can't do this.

It looks like you are playing scared, and that's a good way to lose pot after pot.

LiveInPeace · #9 10-05-2007, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the worst losing streak of my short poker life. Down $75 over about 1,500 hands -- I know that's not a lot of hands or a lot of money to some people, but for my roll it is. I'm playing what I thought was TAG poker, with my numbers reading 20/14/1.5 over that stretch (I have freaking mac poker tracker, so sorry, no graph).

What immediate steps should I take to turn this around? I'm tilting hard right now, so I'm going to take a few days off before I play again. **GOOD IDEA** When i start playing again, though, I'm not sure if I should loosen up. **PROBABLY NOT PRE-FLOP** Playing TAG at NL10 is killing me. I wait and wait for a decent hand, raise and get folds because everyone knows I'm only playing solid starting hands. **NO THEY DON'T FOLD MAINLY FOR THAT REASON, THEY FOLD BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE HANDS THAT TIME** If I get a call and miss the flop, I'll 85% of the time c-bet, get a call or a raise and be forced to fold later. It just whittles away my buy-ins. **YOU REALISE YOUR OWN PROBLEM HERE - THE ANSWER IS DON'T BET FLOPS THAT YOU MISS HOLDING DECENT CARDS**

IF I do hit, I'll have hands like these where clearly I'm underbetting, but I'm freaked out about scaring villain away and not extracting the most I can: **YOU NEED TO ADJUST YOUR VIEW TO "TAKING THE POT DOWN" BEING MORE IMPORTANT THAN "NOT SCARING VILLAIN AWAY" - IT IS**

[/ QUOTE ]

basementproject · #10 10-05-2007, 03:00 PM

Hand 1: Preflop, fine. But dude, what are you doing calling on the flop? RAISE it up man! you have a set on a flushdraw board, if he wants to draw out at least let him know you're going to make him pay. You have the nuts here, bet like it. You can't ALWAYS stack someone with AA, not on boards like these. Same thing on the turn. DON'T CALL! Raise or fold. Calling is the worst thing you can ever do when you have a marginal hand that could be beat.

Hand 2: Fine until the turn. Again, your hand is not a monster on this board, you need to raise. Raise so much he can't afford to draw out.

Let me reiterate this for all who haven't read it: Poker isn't about winning money NOW, it's about making the +EV plays. Get your money in ahead, and you've won, even if the individual hand loses. Calling in either of these situations is not +EV, you've given him every reason in the world to suck out on your hands.

You can't be worrying about scaring villains off of your hands, when your hands could be beaten easily. Hope this helps.