Ruling question, never seen this before

[TxRedMan]

Fwiw, we chopped the pot. Obv if one of us has a set here someone might not want to chop, but since we both probably had gutshots we were fine with chopping.

Correct ruling would be appreciated as one wasn't made when it was apparent it would slow the game down and multiple floors might have to be called over.


I'm in the BB with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO opens for $20, button calls, SB folds, I call. (2-5 NL, $3000 stacks)

Flop

10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]


checks to the CO who bets $30, folds back to me and I call. I am in the one seat. It was an obvious call, I threw the chips towards the pot and had my hand protected the entire time, but somehow the dealer must have thought I threw my cards in and not my chips, and he totally killed the deck. He did a bridge with the deck and then scrambled the muck into the deck in one motion, and I exclamied "i called!" as he was scrambling the deck. It happened very fast.


What's the correct ruling when the integrity of the deck has been totally compromised? Will the floor ever rule that we have to chop the pot in some rooms?




-Tex

[psandman]

reshuffle the deck (muck and all) and continue with the hand.

[franknagaijr]

Just to be clear, your cards were also in the muck and there was no way to recover them, and the only person who could verify what you had was you?

Seems like a chop would be the only reasonable solution. I could see a really pissy floor manager stating that it was your responsibility to guard your cards and awarding the pot to the other guy.

Of course you use a chip or whatever to protect your cards in the one seat, so the dealer must have been high.

[Taso]

From what I gathered from his post, and I'm not 100% on this, but his cards were still in his possession and the dealer thought the hand was over so he scrambled the deck? I think psandman has the right ruling in any case.

[youtalkfunny]

This is why I hate that it's standard procedure to bury the stub when you drop it. I don't see why the dealer can't drop the deck in a manner that makes it retrievable if it is soon discovered that it needs to be retrieved.

(Don't tell anyone, but I don't bury the stub when I drop it. After seven years, this practice of mine has led to exactly zero disputes or controversies, and saved me from countless embarrassing spots by allowing me to tell the players, "Whoops, I dropped the deck! I'm going to pick it back up now...OK, we're good!")

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I hate that it's standard procedure to bury the stub when you drop it. I don't see why the dealer can't drop the deck in a manner that makes it retrievable if it is soon discovered that it needs to be retrieved.

(Don't tell anyone, but I don't bury the stub when I drop it. After seven years, this practice of mine has led to exactly zero disputes or controversies, and saved me from countless embarrassing spots by allowing me to tell the players, "Whoops, I dropped the deck! I'm going to pick it back up now...OK, we're good!")

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot of places that keep the stub separate from the muck. The stub needs to be mucked in markets where the floor will not remove players who try to grab the stub to rabbit hunt.

[pfapfap]

Yeah, in RR's market, apparently people are crazy and will dive after the muck. I've had someone reach for the stub and/or muck exactly once. I'm with youtalkfunny... in fact, I was trained to put the cut card on top of the stub when done dealing, precisely to protect the deck when there's an error. And yeah, I've mistakinly thought the turn was the river on multiple occasions, as well as missed the last card in stud (last night, as a matter of fact). Usually I notice my mistake right away and pull the stub right back up with the players being none the wiser.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in RR's market, apparently people are crazy and will dive after the muck. I've had someone reach for the stub and/or muck exactly once. I'm with youtalkfunny... in fact, I was trained to put the cut card on top of the stub when done dealing, precisely to protect the deck when there's an error. And yeah, I've mistakinly thought the turn was the river on multiple occasions, as well as missed the last card in stud (last night, as a matter of fact). Usually I notice my mistake right away and pull the stub right back up with the players being none the wiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they don't where I am now, but I have dealt in LA. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I once had a player say "I want to see all hands" the player in the one seat didn't want to show so he twisted my thumb backwards until I let go of the muck and then complained to the floor when I pulled his cards out of the muck to show them. It is pretty common in higher limit games when a players wants to see what was coming that they just reach out and look if the dealer hasn't gotten rid of the stub.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in RR's market, apparently people are crazy and will dive after the muck. I've had someone reach for the stub and/or muck exactly once. I'm with youtalkfunny... in fact, I was trained to put the cut card on top of the stub when done dealing, precisely to protect the deck when there's an error. And yeah, I've mistakinly thought the turn was the river on multiple occasions, as well as missed the last card in stud (last night, as a matter of fact). Usually I notice my mistake right away and pull the stub right back up with the players being none the wiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they don't where I am now, but I have dealt in LA. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I once had a player say "I want to see all hands" the player in the one seat didn't want to show so he twisted my thumb backwards until I let go of the muck and then complained to the floor when I pulled his cards out of the muck to show them. It is pretty common in higher limit games when a players wants to see what was coming that they just reach out and look if the dealer hasn't gotten rid of the stub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? Did he get a beating from security? I'd hope something semi-serious would happen to somebody that would do that to a dealer.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in RR's market, apparently people are crazy and will dive after the muck. I've had someone reach for the stub and/or muck exactly once. I'm with youtalkfunny... in fact, I was trained to put the cut card on top of the stub when done dealing, precisely to protect the deck when there's an error. And yeah, I've mistakinly thought the turn was the river on multiple occasions, as well as missed the last card in stud (last night, as a matter of fact). Usually I notice my mistake right away and pull the stub right back up with the players being none the wiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually they don't where I am now, but I have dealt in LA. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I once had a player say "I want to see all hands" the player in the one seat didn't want to show so he twisted my thumb backwards until I let go of the muck and then complained to the floor when I pulled his cards out of the muck to show them. It is pretty common in higher limit games when a players wants to see what was coming that they just reach out and look if the dealer hasn't gotten rid of the stub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? Did he get a beating from security? I'd hope something semi-serious would happen to somebody that would do that to a dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, nothing happened. Assaulting the dealer isn't considered that big of an offense in some places.