4/8 2 Pair hand, OOP, Live

[AlienBoy]

4/8 Live, Hollywood Park.

This is my first hand, I'm coming in in the big blind.

Hero is in the BB with J7o

4 limpers, SB completes, hero checks.

(6 SB)

FLOP: J 7 4 r

SB checks, Hero bets, 3 callers, 2 folds.

(10 SB)

TURN: 4

Hero bets, Fat older lady RAISES, all fold to hero who???


AB

[StrictlyStrategy]

Calls down.

[James.]

i calldown only because she's fat and old making her very unhappy with life and thus more apt to raise the turn often enough with a hand worse than ours. if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[StrictlyStrategy]

[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, yeah. what do you put her on? if she has a 4(most likely holding) she'll payoff with her boat. most live players have a 4 here a majority of the time. if we weren't getting overlay from the pot to calldown we could probably fold. given that there is additional money to win, we calldown for the occasional time she gets goofy.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
i calldown only because she's fat and old making her very unhappy with life and thus more apt to raise the turn often enough with a hand worse than ours. if i hit a Jack or 7 i go to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fat old ladies don't strike me as the type who get out of line very often. Old ladies are the passive sort who sometimes limp preflop and check and call down with an overpair as I bet TPTK.

A fat middle-aged woman is more likely to raise the turn with a worse hand than a fat old woman in my experience. I should probably start there before I get into correlations between race and playing style.

That being said, I call down.

[AlienBoy]

Well, I guess she was 50ish.

Bleh, I called down, donkey that I am, and she of course had 64o.

The thing is, I'm thinking this is a leak of mine - I pretty much *knew* she had a 4 - are my 4 outs really enough to call? And if I call here, do I really check/call this river UI?

I'm really starting to think I should avoid calling down these games with less than a set.


AB

[BriPlay]

i share this leak, and i cant tell you how much money i MAKE in these games because of it.
imho you have to call down the first time, then next time you can be sure. I've been suprised by people's play so many times i think a call down is justified, esp since you do have some outs.

brian

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I'm thinking this is a leak of mine - I pretty much *knew* she had a 4 - are my 4 outs really enough to call? And if I call here, do I really check/call this river UI?

I'm really starting to think I should avoid calling down these games with less than a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to call down a bit more early in a session and save my big laydowns for when I have seen players show down enough hands so that I feel like I have a solid read.

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit, so I might have checked the flop or I might have checked the turn.

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to call down a bit more early in a session and save my big laydowns for when I have seen players show down enough hands so that I feel like I have a solid read.

I do like to go to showdown a bit more early in a session out of the belief that the more I make people showdown, the sooner I can make reads that I can exploit, so I might have checked the flop or I might have checked the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good metagame strategy for someone who plays live. I don't see why checking in this hand helps you get to showdown (except you miss value) but good overall idea.