Another Ruling Question

Mandor_TFL · #1 09-03-2007, 06:07 PM

I was playing in AC at a 2/5 NL game. 3 players end up getting it all in preflop. No one shows their hands. River card is dealt. It is an Ace and excited idiot flips over his cards and slams them down. 1 of the cards flies off the table before being seen and lands face down, his other card is an Ace. Floor is called and picks it up. It is an Ace as well giving the excited idiot Aces full, making the best hand.

Floor however doesnt really make a ruling. More of a how interesting and then walks away. The shortstack mucked his cards long ago. The Aces guy and 3rd guy were playing for the large side pot. ( the main pot was smaller) The 2 of them then agreed to split it all up. Shortstack got nothing.

So I am clearly disgusted with the Floor's no ruling. But I assume that this is a case where because it is clear the Ace was his card, the Aces Full should have won the whole thing correct?

PantsOnFire · #2 09-03-2007, 06:31 PM

In a lot of places I have played in, a card off the table means a dead hand.

Rick Nebiolo · #3 09-03-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In a lot of places I have played in, a card off the table means a dead hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is one of the reasons the floor should be shot for walking away (assuming no life threatening emregency somewhere else).

~ Rick

BigBluffer · #4 09-03-2007, 07:19 PM

Looking to Robert's Rules of Poker again, the Irregularities sections states the following: "14. If you drop any cards out of your hand onto the floor, you must still play them."

I'm surprised at this. It seems this opens up a whole world of possibilities for abuse and outright cheating. Before I checked it out, I was expecting the rule to be Dead Hand.

Taso · #5 09-03-2007, 07:52 PM

If that rule didn't exist - IM ALL IN (opponent looks like he's going to call) you pretend to accidently drop your hand on the floor, your hand is dead, chips come back? Or would your hand be dead and your chips stay in the middle for whoever is left in the pot? (I'm asking, not being sarcastic)

BigBluffer · #6 09-03-2007, 08:11 PM

Dead Hand = All money previously bet by that player is forfeited. No refunds. Otherwise everyone would do this everytime they went all-in on a bluff and were called.

Of course, this assumes that the house rule in this situation is Dead Hand and not Pick-It-Up-And-Play-On.

PokahPokah · #7 09-03-2007, 09:52 PM

what if someone threw his card on the floor ? lol

BigBluffer · #8 09-03-2007, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what if someone threw his card on the floor ? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean what if Player A threw Player B's card on the floor?

In that case, I would call for the floor. Hopefully the floor would 1) give Player A a swift KITN then 2) invite Player A to cash out his chips and take a week's break.

Al_Capone_Junior · #9 09-03-2007, 10:10 PM

I always hate to see the worst hand win because of a technicality. The player clearly got excited and made a silly mistake, but in reality there was no question that the loose card belonged to him, and that it was the correct card.

Still, I don't like this floor's choice to say nothing. This player could have lost the pot in many rooms. In fact, I think most rooms would have declared his hand dead. However, I don't think this would be the decision which best maintains the fairness and integrity of the game. This floor should have given this player a bit of a lecture, or to save time, a KITN.

I don't have any problem with the best hand winning in this case. After all, the best hand should win the pot. I also don't have too much of a problem with the players agreeing to split the side pot if that makes everyone happy. I'm guessing they decided to do that because they both had the perception that a card off the table is automatically dead. There's always the potential for a situational consideration to override strict interpretation of any specific rule if doing so protects the integrity of the game.**

Al

**this is a concept most players and many floors fail to comprehend

PantsOnFire · #10 09-03-2007, 10:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I always hate to see the worst hand win because of a technicality. The player clearly got excited and made a silly mistake, but in reality there was no question that the loose card belonged to him, and that it was the correct card.

Still, I don't like this floor's choice to say nothing. This player could have lost the pot in many rooms. In fact, I think most rooms would have declared his hand dead. However, I don't think this would be the decision which best maintains the fairness and integrity of the game. This floor should have given this player a bit of a lecture, or to save time, a KITN.

I don't have any problem with the best hand winning in this case. After all, the best hand should win the pot. I also don't have too much of a problem with the players agreeing to split the side pot if that makes everyone happy. I'm guessing they decided to do that because they both had the perception that a card off the table is automatically dead. There's always the potential for a situational consideration to override strict interpretation of any specific rule if doing so protects the integrity of the game.**

Al

**this is a concept most players and many floors fail to comprehend

[/ QUOTE ]
Certainly in our home games, the hand would still play.

I have talked to floors and dealers about this rule in the casino and most seem to think it protects the player who didn't put a card on the floor from against either cheating or simply the optics of a scenario where the card coming back to the table not being the same one that left.

Maybe some floors and dealers who post here can expand on that thought.