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#21
06-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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Re: AQ line check
This hand can be difficult because the largest part of his range that we are beating (AK) has 7 outs against our hand. He will often try for and take a free card on the turn if we offer it but he probably will not be able to get away from this hand if we don't give it. I think I like the line that James gave.
[ QUOTE ] that said, my standard line these days would be b/c the flop, donkety donk the turn. [/ QUOTE ] 
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#22
06-04-2007, 11:39 AM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you donk the flop? I don't get donk bets; more often than not they're incorrect. If you never donk-bet you're probably not making many mistakes. [/ QUOTE ] elindauer wrote a good essay on donk betting. elindauer's essay
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#24
06-04-2007, 03:22 PM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you'll get bluffed out of the pot by AK a lot here if you just give up after the 3 bet and don't improve. [/ QUOTE ] Very true [/ QUOTE ] How many villains are capable of 3-betting with AK after a check raiser here? I sure as hell consider it a spew, but I'm weak like that.
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#25
06-04-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: AQ line check
In position? I do it a lot.
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#26
06-04-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you'll get bluffed out of the pot by AK a lot here if you just give up after the 3 bet and don't improve. [/ QUOTE ] Very true [/ QUOTE ] How many villains are capable of 3-betting with AK after a check raiser here? I sure as hell consider it a spew, but I'm weak like that. [/ QUOTE ] given what the flop c/r usually means these days and that there are at least around 10sb in the pot at that point, getting to the river for that one more sb isn't that bad if you're considering a call.
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#27
06-06-2007, 02:39 PM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you'll get bluffed out of the pot by AK a lot here if you just give up after the 3 bet and don't improve. [/ QUOTE ] Very true [/ QUOTE ] How many villains are capable of 3-betting with AK after a check raiser here? I sure as hell consider it a spew, but I'm weak like that. [/ QUOTE ] given what the flop c/r usually means these days and that there are at least around 10sb in the pot at that point, getting to the river for that one more sb isn't that bad if you're considering a call. [/ QUOTE ] What exactly does the flop c/r "usually mean these days?" Live, a c/r usually means 2 pair or better. Online, I guess it could mean anything. Are you saying that villain's 3-bet here in position is simply a free showdown play, trying to hit his top pair? I think I need to reevaluate my limit game.
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#28
06-06-2007, 02:52 PM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
What exactly does the flop c/r "usually mean these days?" Live, a c/r usually means 2 pair or better. Online, I guess it could mean anything. Are you saying that villain's 3-bet here in position is simply a free showdown play, trying to hit his top pair? I think I need to reevaluate my limit game. [/ QUOTE ] online it usually means a hand where you want your opponent to fold; i.e., a draw, or a low pair. With a good hand bet/3bet is favoured.
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#29
06-08-2007, 05:12 AM
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Re: AQ line check
Some thoughts:
- Villain had KK. I knew it the moment he 3-bet the flop and I still paid him off. D'oh! - Contrary to what many people seem to believe, it is NOT standard for a villain to 3-bet this flop w AK. Maybe in the lower limits, maybe in the higher limits, but not on 5/10 and not this loose passive villain. I should have folded the turn.
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#30
06-08-2007, 05:27 AM
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Re: AQ line check
[ QUOTE ]
Some thoughts: - Villain had KK. I knew it the moment he 3-bet the flop and I still paid him off. D'oh! [/ QUOTE ]You knew it? As in, 80% sure, or 90% sure, or what? I you were that sure you should have just checked and folded. [ QUOTE ] - Contrary to what many people seem to believe, it is NOT standard for a villain to 3-bet this flop w AK. Maybe in the lower limits, maybe in the higher limits, but not on 5/10 and not this loose passive villain. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe it's not standard, but it seems a really good spot to do it here. I would consider it, and at times also do it. Primarily because of the position and the gutshot. (I believe in the book "how good is your limit hold'em" they actually describe a similar hand and tell you to 3 bet here: especially against a passive player.) [ QUOTE ] I should have folded the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Well, you know your reads best, but this sounds an aweful lot like results oriented thinking. I can show you hands where I made crying calls in big pots that I actually won; against extremely passive players (~0.5 af) who suddenly decide it's time for a bluff.
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