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#64
11-13-2007, 01:42 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
Jw, would you ever check flop behind here since he cr so many paired board flops? And are overpairs in his range enough to factor into the decision?
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#66
11-13-2007, 02:51 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
I think on this hand, the river call is really quite trivial. I think in the long run of EV, it won't matter much because Patrik seems to balance his hands so well (i have never played him just looking at hands others have shown me). I think my decision would come down to how I want him to perceive me.
I think with patrik, I would rather have him on the defensive. I would rather him making big call downs than making huge bluffs on the river. If that was the case, Id rather call and error on the side of being a calling station in his eyes rather than being able to be run over. Against him this may not make any difference at all, but if its this close, i would like to create an impression on him that i can make big calls and i get to see a line he took on a huge hand oop.
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#67
11-13-2007, 03:39 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
Ur hand is never a 4, a 6 and usually not a flush is it (even if it is a flush sometimes - still an ugly board to call a bet on) - PA knows this right? AND knows that he could easily have a 6, tens, or even a better flush in ur eyes right? So given the fact that it seems a good spot to bluff, that all straight draws missed and that he could be turning a middle pair into a bluff (maybe?), seems like a call cant be bad.
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#68
11-13-2007, 05:29 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] that is such a big flop raise i am having trouble figuring out what it means. [/ QUOTE ] What you mean big, it's <pot (assuming krantz opened to 3bb). [/ QUOTE ] its much larger than normal for HU matches. most people just go 3x or something slightly higher. [/ QUOTE ] is PA most ppl? I would stay away from making a big read on him pot raising a flop... [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't saying this was not standard for PA, just explaining why jfish might have thought it was odd and why something might be read into it. Obviously if this was standard cr size nobody cares.
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#69
11-13-2007, 05:33 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
i dont think that the turn or the river allow us to narrow down his range at all since they are both such good cards to continue bluffing with...
i guess once you account for the times that he value bets worse combined with the fact that his range for air is the same as it was on the flop i would imagine this is a call but it really comes down how often he is cring paired flops (also i can see a fold with a clear level based read)
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#70
11-13-2007, 06:37 AM
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Re: a hand vs PA, 200/400 HU
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think a flop 3bet is a massive mistake, for a couple reasons. It might be ok if the board was like 742 w/ 2 clubs , but the fact that the board is paired, as well as the fact that we are 80k deep- not 60k or 40k makes 3betting a real big mistake. I doubt you get a fold from bigish hands, and you probably get played back at w/ a lot of bigger draws. [/ QUOTE ] My problem with calling is that we haven't done anything to define his range since he basically check-raises everything, and overcards still have a ton of equity. I guess we can shove turn on a blank, but if he checks are we going to fire? I feel like calling is going to result in him showing down A high or something. [/ QUOTE ] So? I'd rather 3bet with total air here. What are you doing if 4 bet? [/ QUOTE ] obviously calling, and while that's a bad result in a vacuum, it has some pretty solid benefits: a) we get a good idea of the kinds of hands he's willing to stack off with on this flop, and he's going to respond to flop 3bets b) he sees us take a completely weird line I think these benefits + making him fold a jillion hands with 40% equity make a 3bet pretty nice.
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