Legality and Withdrawl

[Jimbo]

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You should be more concerned about filing form TDF 90-22.1 than the questions you asked.

Jimbo

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Boy that is a stretch!


D$D

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Please elaborate. He did seem most concerned about not breaking any laws and if he has failed to file that form he is breaking one that has been very strictly enforced since 2004.

Jimbo

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

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The requirement to report any CASH transaction 10,000 or over is not a myth.

OK. Understood. But OP's transaction was not cash, it was probably a check. We now need a banker to tell us if an EFT is deemed cash by the law.

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The same reporting requirements apply to any monetary instrument over $10K coming from outside the US. And the crime of structuring also applies to such transactions.

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FYI - the point of my CPA friend's comment that the $10,000 number was a myth was not that it didn't exists, but that the reporting threshhold for non payroll deposits is actually much lower.

[what is 7x6]

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You should be more concerned about filing form TDF 90-22.1 than the questions you asked.

Jimbo

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Boy that is a stretch!


D$D

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Please elaborate. He did seem most concerned about not breaking any laws and if he has failed to file that form he is breaking one that has been very strictly enforced since 2004.

Jimbo

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Yeah, i have no idea what that form is or what law it pertains to. What is it?

Thanks

[Skallagrim]

TDF 90-22 is the form for reporting transactions over 10K.

You dont need that form at this point. You have money in a offshore poker account. You are not in a "single transaction" where you need to move it all at once. Move it to your home account in less than 10K increments each month. Your bank will do whatever other reporting is needed. You declare all the winnings at tax time and you will be ok.

And if you are gonna make this much money at poker, HIRE AN ACCOUNTANT to answer your questions rather than rely on 2+2. The cost will probably be less than your expected return for 2 days play, and it will be advice you can trust.

Skallagrim

[DeadMoneyDad]

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TDF 90-22 is the form for reporting transactions over 10K.

You dont need that form at this point. You have money in a offshore poker account. You are not in a "single transaction" where you need to move it all at once. Move it to your home account in less than 10K increments each month. Your bank will do whatever other reporting is needed. You declare all the winnings at tax time and you will be ok.

And if you are gonna make this much money at poker, HIRE AN ACCOUNTANT to answer your questions rather than rely on 2+2. The cost will probably be less than your expected return for 2 days play, and it will be advice you can trust.

Skallagrim

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He was talking about the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts form I thought. That was originally passed so that any taxes you paid overseas you got credit for on your US taxes if you were a citizen.

I do see the IRS seems to have after the Patriot Act taken that and turned it on its ear.

I think the OP really does need to seriously consider at least more research in this matter.

Most people don't know the IRS's idea of fair taxes on gambling, not that fair ever meant a thing to the IRS.

IMO if your single site bankroll ever gets over $1k you need to cash out and start keeping some seriously detailed records. Even more so if you play cahs games. The IRS's idea of sessions is really wierd.

Too many people think you can net out your winnings and call it good.

If this withdraw spans much over a quarter or two the OP could be in serious money trouble and likely break even on $20k assuming a year or longer playing time, session by session accounting, the lawyers and accounts fees, not to mention the back taxes and potential penalties.

Given some mix of all of the above, if the site is located in anything remotely consider a vacation friendly country I'd consider flying there if it was an option. Take the wife and or girlfriend buying her some US made jewelery and blowing most of it there or at least off shore.

If even half of the assumptions are correct and there was no other reason for the IRS to look at him due to his "real" world tax picture, asking the IRS to take a big piece out of not only his poker bankroll but getting on their radar screen permantly vs a freeroll vacation....

I'd sail.


D$D

[Jimbo]

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TDF 90-22 is the form for reporting transactions over 10K.


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You would think an attorney would know better than this. D$D is correct as to what this form is for and when it is required. I do agree with Skall on two things, hire an accountant and be very careful who you pay attention to in this forum.

Jimbo

[Skallagrim]

Ooops, I got the form numbers wrong...shouldn't post when I am under the influences of painkillers (dental work)(but then again, it was a game not to identify the form wasn't it? you could have said what the form was for...).

This is exactly why the OP should hire a personal accountant, not ask 2+2.

Actually though, money in a poker site account is pretty clearly not money that requires a foreign bank account report. Neteller and any similar e-wallets are an open question. The IRS seems to take the position that it applies, however, so the safer policy is to report a balance in an offshhore e-wallet if the balance at any time exceeds 10K. As a practical matter, however, this is still primarily a tax issue, as failing to report the foreign account under these dubious circumstances (is it a covered account?) is not likely to be a problem if the income is properly reported and the corrext taxes are paid.

Skallagrim

[DeadMoneyDad]

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Ooops, I got the form numbers wrong...shouldn't post when I am under the influences of painkillers (dental work)(but then again, it was a game not to identify the form wasn't it? you could have said what the form was for...).

This is exactly why the OP should hire a personal accountant, not ask 2+2.

Actually though, money in a poker site account is pretty clearly not money that requires a foreign bank account report. Neteller and any similar e-wallets are an open question. The IRS seems to take the position that it applies, however, so the safer policy is to report a balance in an offshhore e-wallet if the balance at any time exceeds 10K. As a practical matter, however, this is still primarily a tax issue, as failing to report the foreign account under these dubious circumstances (is it a covered account?) is not likely to be a problem if the income is properly reported and the corrext taxes are paid.

Skallagrim

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From a little more reading it seems the IRS might take the new use of the form to require the use of the form when the total of all your poker accounts exceeds $10k, since all poker accounts are offshore as far as I know, not just a single account or transaction.

As it is getting to the point the IRS seems to want to know where every dime you might have is as a US citizen.

I ofen ask at a register if they still take cash?

When they laugh, I say; "of course with three forms of ID and a note from my Mother explaining where I actually got the cash......"


D$D's October goal is to put a smile on everyone's face this month!

[Skallagrim]

The reporting of foreign accounts does not apply to every conceivable account, just "financial accounts." Does that include poker site accounts? A poker site is hardly a "financial" entity. But who knows how far the IRS will take their interpretations, though they have yet to state explicitly that money in offshore gaming company accounts are foreign financial accounts.

D$D is right about the rule applying when the sum of all your "financial" accounts is over 10K. So if you had, say, 5k in Neteller and 6K in the Bank of Costa Rica, you most likely have to file this form.

Skallagrim

[DeadMoneyDad]

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The reporting of foreign accounts does not apply to every conceivable account, just "financial accounts." Does that include poker site accounts? A poker site is hardly a "financial" entity. But who knows how far the IRS will take their interpretations, though they have yet to state explicitly that money in offshore gaming company accounts are foreign financial accounts.

D$D is right about the rule applying when the sum of all your "financial" accounts is over 10K. So if you had, say, 5k in Neteller and 6K in the Bank of Costa Rica, you most likely have to file this form.

Skallagrim

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I hate telling the IRS anything, but if I had a total of $10 or more on offshore accounts I'd file the form. If you read the underlying statute and recent IRS actions, it is clear at least the IRS considers money even in a poker site account as a financial account.

But you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, as is always the case with the IRS. If you don't file you break this rule, if you do file they will want to know where the $10k came from, then next year if there is any change in the account values they will want to know why.


D$D