2 hands against the same donk

[n.s.]

live 12 game.

I don't have a great read on villain, but I know he's bad (I heard some good player licking their chops when he was called to the game) and he seems to be in lots of pots, occasionally showing up at showdown with some real garbage. He's not particularly passive, although I don't yet have a sense of when he decides to get aggressive.

Hand 1

PF: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villain limps in EP, bad player (LAG PF, LP post-flop) raises, decent player cold-calls, Hero 3-bets, button folds, SB folds, BB calls, everyone calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players, 15 SB)
BB checks, villain bets, 1 caller, Hero raises, BB folds, villain calls, caller calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 10.5 BB)
Villain bets out, fold, Hero raises, Villain calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 14.5 BB)
Villain checks, hero bets, villain thinks for a while and calls.

Results (included because the affect my read for the second hand):
<font color="white">I show my hand, villain takes his time and finally flips over K7o and MHIG.</font>

Hand 2

PF: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 limpers including villain, Hero raises, blinds fold and limpers call.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players, 9.5 SB)
checks to hero, hero bets, villain and one other player call.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 6 BB)
check, check, hero bets, villain calls, other guy folds

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 8 BB)
Villain checks, hero bets, villain check-raises, hero folds.

standard?

[WMB]

Standard

[Garland]

You play good. Remind me to avoid you when I visit Seattle.

Garland

[NinaWilliams]

Both are perfect.

[SNOWBALL]

I can't figure out how you are ahead in hand 2 so the fold looks good even with a somewhat bigger pot

Can someone gimme a thought process that might lead us to a call? I think it's a good exercise.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
You play good. Remind me to avoid you when I visit Seattle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] but either way it shouldn't be hard to avoid me since I only make it out once a week these days. So as long as you don't play at Parker's every day for a week and your chances are pretty good.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone gimme a thought process that might lead us to a call? I think it's a good exercise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, I'm great at finding creative reasons to make bad calls [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Here's what I could come up with:

1) We're getting 11:1 against a bad player who's capable of making dumb bluffs / value bets (see hand 1).
2) This guy might have bluffed at the turn with a flush draw, so the back-door flush is even less likely.
3) The straight got there on the turn and he'd have to be an idiot not to check-raise the turn with 36 or 68.
4) A bad player might think that the A is a scare card, so he would have bet out if it made him 2 pair+, fearing that I'd check the river (or hoping to bet/3-bet).
5) He could have a hand like 78 that he peeled the flop with, turned a gutshot, and now he's making a desperation play at the pot when a scare card comes.

I don't think these are enough, though, especially since they aren't all consistent with each other (reason 3 in particular is contradictory to the "bad player" read).

Later on in the session I found out that this guy is a chronic slowplayer (even in really bad spots to do so), so he probably had some kinda monster here.

[Mr Rick]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't figure out how you are ahead in hand 2 so the fold looks good even with a somewhat bigger pot

Can someone gimme a thought process that might lead us to a call? I think it's a good exercise.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only time I will call is if I have seen villian do something similar in the past. Either he has check-raise bluffed on the river, or the turn, or even the flop. Or, if the pot is very large and my hand is decent.

My profile for these types of players (serial bluffers) is that they are generally loose, they play NL also, their aggression is more random than strategic, and they enjoy playing alot.

One guy who check-raise bluffed me on the river was losing badly, and after the hand - which he of course flipped over to maximize his enjoyment - said he had waited a lifetime to do that.

There was also one guy on-line who went for the river check-raise bluff frequently, apparently without giving much thought to the fact that people were looking up the results in real time. I never ever folded a river check raise to him, and won every one of them.