should you ever lay down QQ preflop?

[Popeye]

hi this is a serious question, its not BBV intended.

should you ever lay down QQ preflop?

I was at the beginning of the second hour of FTOPS event #8 (PL holdem) today, i had QQ and raised 3x bb, one opponent reraised the whole pot on me.
Now i was on her table for a long while (the whole last hour), she seemed like a decent, conservative, solid player to me. I only seen her make such a big reraise before with KK.
Now i got a very very strong gut feeling that she had either AA or KK. i wanted to lay down my QQ (seriously) but instead reraised her allin, and she turned over KK.
I must also say that both of us didn't have desparate stacks, we both were slighty above average stack. ( i would have still been in good shape if i just folded)

So did I play it bad, to put my tournament live on the line?
Or is it just stupid to lay down QQ, because in tournaments you have limited time and i have to accumulate some chips sometime!

[Cornell Fiji]

Thinking about folding QQ to a single raise preflop is beyond bad.

I would need a much greater read on this player that a 60 hand sample size could provide. If I had played tens of thousands of hands with this player then maybe I could lay QQ down in this spot.

In general QQ should never be folded preflop in an online tournament. There are some occasions where this rule is wrong but they are so rare that it is best to just not fold QQ preflop unless you are an expert.

[APXG]

The key is not to follow any of these blanket-statement rules. If you feel absolutely certain after thinking it through you should fold, go ahead and fold it. As you study these situations further by actually thinking about the decision and not following common logic of "never folding it", you will get better at actually making the fold +EV long term. In other words, if folding QQ makes you think about the spot deeply, trusting your gut even if it may be -EV in that specific situation is fine. We all throw away so much EV by not concetrating, not thinking 100%, etc that such a fold is or nonfold is pretty insignificant long-term.

[SinOrSwim]

Go with your gut. I folded QQ in a $50.00 live tourney a couple weeks ago. Guy had just been moved to our table so didn't have much of a history but my gut said to lay it down. He showed me his K's. I went on to finish 4th.

Now, I also got my K's cracked against a guy who called my all-in late in a tourney with QQ. Finished 3rd instead of 2nd. Wasn't happy about that.

Again, like one of the others said. Try to stay away from blanket rules. Think and use your gut.

[Cornell Fiji]

I disagree highly with "going with your gut" in online tournaments.

In live tournaments your gut can be influenced by live reads but in in an online tournament all you can go by is your observed history of the oppnents actions.

I do not believe that one hour of online history could be nearly sufficient enough to support folding QQ to a single raise preflop. It is possible in this case the villain would have raised preflop with AK/AQ/JJ/TT but that they just have not had those hands in the past hour.

Because we only have an hours worth of reads to go by we have to make some assumptions about our opponants that are based on how a typical player acts. Because a typical player will raise with AK/AQ/JJ/TT in this spot we must push all in with our pocket queens when against a raise, in the long run it is quite simply a winning play.

[w33ktight]

[ QUOTE ]

In general QQ should never be folded preflop in an online tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you being serious?

[sledghammer]

Folding to a single reraise preflop with QQ isn't beyond bad, but I can't remember the last time I did it. Can someone link to adanthar's post about it? It basically demonstrated that vs. the average tight multitabler folding to a single reraise was probably best, and although technically people sort of agreed, no one wanted to fold, and no one will.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In general QQ should never be folded preflop in an online tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you being serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

I don't level in the strategy forums.

There are some instances where QQ can be folded preflop but in general it should never be folded preflop in an online game.

The fact that people do lay it down to a reraise preflop is the reason why good aggressive players are so profitable.

[chrismystero]

[ QUOTE ]

The fact that people do lay it down to a reraise preflop is the reason why good aggressive players are so profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]
this statement is correct in my opinion, however, it can be played with a little bit. Would I fold my QQ to a player who I feel is aggressive? No. However, if i truely feel i have a read on a player ( a relative tight player, as described), and i feel im beat, i have no problem with laying down a hand like QQ. This statement in my opinion is directed at aggressive players, however a big reraise by a tight player is a different story.

i think 1 hour of online reads on a player can be enough to lay down QQ. Go with your gut, lay it down if u feel necessary.

[Thundercat32]

People will talk about amazing laydowns and some are remarkable... I remember Phil Gordon talking about laying KK down to Phil Hellmuth at the WSOP. I guess when you play long enough you get a good enough "gut feeling" for when to lay down a monster and when not to.

However, I really don't think focusing your attention on laying down QQ preflop is where you are going to grow as a player or maximize your profits. That happens during postflop play and I'd spend more time in other areas of my game. If you have QQ and run up against KK or AA, just give the opponent credit for a good hand and move on