KQs, what to do???

Jon_AK · #1 08-27-2007, 01:55 AM

had a very hard time w/ this one. We were in the top 170ish of 2000 entrants at the time of this hand in the nightly $0.50 tournament. Villain has shown down KQ on the button and 77 in MP since I joined the table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Jon_AK (t13634)
MP2 (t17194)
MP3 (t4770)
CO (t7635)
Button (t9539)
SB (t18163)
BB (t8335)
UTG (t28338)
UTG+1 (t33306)

Preflop: Jon_AK is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t4000, Jon_AK???

erc007 · #2 08-27-2007, 02:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
had a very hard time w/ this one. We were in the top 170ish of 2000 entrants at the time of this hand in the nightly $0.50 tournament. Villain has shown down KQ on the button and 77 in MP since I joined the table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Jon_AK (t13634)
MP2 (t17194)
MP3 (t4770)
CO (t7635)
Button (t9539)
SB (t18163)
BB (t8335)
UTG (t28338)
UTG+1 (t33306)

Preflop: Jon_AK is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t4000, Jon_AK???

[/ QUOTE ]

Initially, i thought this might be a tough fold, but you are almost 50% against a tight UTG range (99+;AQs+;AQo+),
so with 13BBs and over 2k in the pot this is a shove.

FuriousD · #3 08-27-2007, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
had a very hard time w/ this one. We were in the top 170ish of 2000 entrants at the time of this hand in the nightly $0.50 tournament. Villain has shown down KQ on the button and 77 in MP since I joined the table.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Jon_AK (t13634)
MP2 (t17194)
MP3 (t4770)
CO (t7635)
Button (t9539)
SB (t18163)
BB (t8335)
UTG (t28338)
UTG+1 (t33306)

Preflop: Jon_AK is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t4000, Jon_AK???

[/ QUOTE ]

Initially, i thought this might be a tough fold, but you are almost 50% against a tight UTG range (99+;AQs+;AQo+),
so with 13BBs and over 2k in the pot this is a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very easy fold. You won't see a 4x raise get folded to a 13BB shove in a 50 cent MTT (probably not in a $200 MTT either). You are showing a ton of strength by by shoving here but I doubt he'll care. In a 50 cent MTT you could easily have hands that have you crushed but should fold anyway (e.g. AQo) coming along for the ride.

If you had AQo I'm not sure what the correct play would be. I'm guessing fold without a read.

Jon_AK · #4 08-27-2007, 04:52 PM

Another thing about this is... What is more important when playing shortstacked poker and the average stack has an M between 6-10? Is you M more important? Or is the fact that everyone is desperate make you play more conservatively? I felt like pushing KQs here was a mistake simply because I was just below the average stack size. Is this right? or was my M low enough to allow a shove? I have found that after getting ITM, everyone is folding around to the blinds like crazy at these things so I loosen up a lot and start raising hands like A6s in middle position and if the BB calls, I am going to raise the flop no matter what (unless the BB makes a move before me, of course). I feel that others get too tight and maybe I should start to give more credit to a preflop raise and focus on playing one opponent/allow them to see a flop and push them off after that?

For example, I played this hand when everyone was getting super tight and playing VERY weak, I felt if I bet a small amount and got reraised I had an easy escape... good play?:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

BB (t10940)
UTG (t14335)
UTG+1 (t7760)
MP1 (t10080)
MP2 (t2862)
MP3 (t9979)
CO (t5135)
Button (t1143)
Jon_AK (t7425)

Preflop: Jon_AK is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t1400, 4 folds, Jon_AK calls t1200, 1 fold.

Flop: (t2800) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Jon_AK bets t1900

Nez477 · #5 08-27-2007, 05:01 PM

This is an instashove

We are, as previously mentioned, in pretty good shape against his range, we have a small amount of fold equity to boot, and dead money in the pot

Easy push for me

Sherman · #6 08-27-2007, 05:12 PM

Yeah. This 2nd hand is terrible.

You are calling a raise from MP OOP with the intention of donk-bluffing the flop. I don't like this at all especially when this flop is right on with his raising range. It worked this time, but in general I think donk bluffing into this board is -EV.

Jon_AK · #7 08-27-2007, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. This 2nd hand is terrible.

You are calling a raise from MP OOP with the intention of donk-bluffing the flop. I don't like this at all especially when this flop is right on with his raising range. It worked this time, but in general I think donk bluffing into this board is -EV.

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alright thanks, but lets say this guy folds... do I muck or show to put him on major tilt so I can wreck him in a later hand when I got something legit?

Sherman · #8 08-27-2007, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. This 2nd hand is terrible.

You are calling a raise from MP OOP with the intention of donk-bluffing the flop. I don't like this at all especially when this flop is right on with his raising range. It worked this time, but in general I think donk bluffing into this board is -EV.

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alright thanks, but lets say this guy folds... do I muck or show to put him on major tilt so I can wreck him in a later hand when I got something legit?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's always up to you and your discrection. I personally never show, mostly b/c I have the auto-muck button on.

4CardStraight · #9 08-27-2007, 06:34 PM

What sort of stuff are you people smoking?!?!

KQs is no where near a 50/50 against that range. Thats wretched. Lets at least CONSIDER actually running a pokerstove before we post some BS trash.

Against a top 7% hand KQs is 35/65.

These hands are both mucks. And fast.

We can push KQs in an unopened pot. Thats quite profitable. We dont overpush a tight raiser with it. Anything we push gives him odds to call with everything he would open raise, so this isnt a resteal or anything. Its just bad poker.

Hand 0: 34.098% 33.70% 00.41% 1020935 12381.50 { KQs }
Hand 1: 65.903% 65.51% 00.41% 1984942 12381.50 { 88+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Nice try tho. Really. Fifty Fifty against his range... PUFF PUFF GIVE. PUFF PUFF GIVE.

4Card

Nez477 · #10 08-27-2007, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What sort of stuff are you people smoking?!?!

KQs is no where near a 50/50 against that range. Thats wretched. Lets at least CONSIDER actually running a pokerstove before we post some BS trash.

Against a top 7% hand KQs is 35/65.

These hands are both mucks. And fast.

We can push KQs in an unopened pot. Thats quite profitable. We dont overpush a tight raiser with it. Anything we push gives him odds to call with everything he would open raise, so this isnt a resteal or anything. Its just bad poker.

Hand 0: 34.098% 33.70% 00.41% 1020935 12381.50 { KQs }
Hand 1: 65.903% 65.51% 00.41% 1984942 12381.50 { 88+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Nice try tho. Really. Fifty Fifty against his range... PUFF PUFF GIVE. PUFF PUFF GIVE.

4Card

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That range is too tight for a .50 tourney