TT A high flop.

NinaWilliams · #1 11-11-2007, 07:10 PM

Villain is a 30/20/2.5 TAG. He plays pretty well from what ive seen.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.6SB, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.8BB, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero

frenchpignouf · #2 11-11-2007, 08:05 PM

I b/f, if he's good he knows you don't fold much on this board with your range.

From the other hand you have just 25% of equity for 5BB pot and you have 'negative' outs, ie if there is a K a J or a 8 on the river you can fold and save a bet (or a weak Q can check the river).

fmsr · #3 11-11-2007, 08:09 PM

This is a tough spot for me. I usually b/f in this situation but I wonder if I want to see a showdown here cheaply instead by checking and c/c'ing the river.

Oink · #4 11-11-2007, 08:21 PM

What is he peeling with that we beat and that calls a bet now but not on the river if we check?

Say he has 9x, 7x or a PP. Then if we check he is prolly gonna put in a bet on the river. If we bet and check behind river it doesnt do us any better. In particular if he just folds now.

If he has Ax and is looking to c/r now or just call down and bet river if we check then it doesnt matter whether we check behind or b/f

This leaves draws like JT and T8s. If these will take a stab on the river then checking isnt that bad against those.

I really cant see what betting does for us here unless we think we have a valuebet on both turn and river.

Important: If hero believes he has a vb on both turn and river then my arguments above sucks.

frenchpignouf · #5 11-11-2007, 08:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is he peeling with that we beat and that calls a bet now but not on the river if we check?

Say he has 9x, 7x or a PP. Then if we check he is prolly gonna put in a bet on the river. If we bet and check behind river it doesnt do us any better. In particular if he just folds now.

If he has Ax and is looking to c/r now or just call down and bet river if we check then it doesnt matter whether we check behind or b/f

This leaves draws like JT and T8s. If these will take a stab on the river then checking isnt that bad against those.

I really cant see what betting does for us here unless we think we have a valuebet on both turn and river.

Important: If hero believes he has a vb on both turn and river then my arguments above sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, we can not bet both streets. Moreover if there is a c/r 30% of the time on the turn we lost by folding a two outers around 0.1 BB.

Do you call any river ?

Oink · #6 11-11-2007, 08:46 PM

Prolly not call a J river but otherwise yes. If its a K river and he has KJ. Good for him.

And yeah. The missed value from b/f a 2 outer in what would be a somewhat big pot on the turn if he c/r has a lot of value as well actually.

This is something I believe a lot of players/posters miss: If you dont have a valuebet on both turn and river you should most often just check turn

istewart · #7 11-11-2007, 10:16 PM

I'd be more scared of JT on a K river than KJ. That's a pretty bad flop peel with KJ imo.

Oink · #8 11-11-2007, 10:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be more scared of JT on a K river than KJ. That's a pretty bad flop peel with KJ imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya missed that. So the K river is also bad. But hero still beats lower T8s, 86s and possibly worse made hands that decides to turn their hand into a bluff. This is not a guy where I am comfortable folding the river if I check behind the turn