rampant cheating at party poker 10-20 pot limit

[Niwa]

bldswttrs does post here occasionally.

[James282]

Zeebo,
You really think arbiannight is good?

Also, these two players aren't colluding.
-James

[limon]

Post deleted by limon

[VanVeen]

Substantiating your accusation is nearly impossible, so why make it publically?

That being said, if smart players are colluding in these games even experienced players wouldn't be able to detect it. Most of what they'd do would fall under the rubric of "what two tough LAGs do when they run into each other". They'd do things like split action on neutral EV image plays (running big bluffs, playing large pots with marginal holdings, allowing each other to get away with exploitable strategies to generate suspicion and consequent action, etc.) and occasionally best-handing or 'pot-protecting' vs. non-team members. Very few players are paying enough attention to differentiate between an opponent's general strategy and their player specific adjustments, and this is especially true among those willing to give the most action.

While limon has probably stepped over the line, I wouldn't take his concerns lightly. A discussion about how to stop it (someone mentioned writing computer programs to identify 'cliques' - no one seemed very interested, though!) from happening sounds like a good idea.

edited in: arbianight is pretty mediocre but a winner.

[limon]

hand histories is over the line. just protect yourself. i will. i shouldnt have named names and posted histories. but i dont like to make claims i cant back up.

[BLdSWtTRs]

U seriously have to be kidding me

[BLdSWtTRs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
today i played with arbiannight & bldswttrs. they kept pushing huge pots to each other but no action for anyone else exept a player named bobmitch52 who i think was just truly awful but its hard to say because they all quit at the same time when i and another player left. no one would leave a game w/ that bobmitch52 guy. i just left to see what would happen and planned on coming back.

[/ QUOTE ]bldswttrs is a 2+2 (more lurker than poster) under the same handle. He is one of the biggest winners if not BIGGEST winner in the party 10/20 game. It's certainly possible he colludes (anything is possible), but I'd bet against it with good odds. Bldswttrs and I have pushed big pots at eachother a lot of times too and we certainly aren't colluding. It's just the nature of playing back at a smart LAG.

They probably quit at the same time b/c they didn't want to play eachother heads up b/c they both know eachother is good. Nothing special about that. They also were probably playing too many tables to worry about playing hu.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what he said.

[captZEEbo]

[ QUOTE ]
hand histories is over the line. just protect yourself. i will. i shouldnt have named names and posted histories. but i dont like to make claims i cant back up.

[/ QUOTE ]You should have, nothing wrong with naming names IMO (but earlier wasn't sure on 2+2's stance). It is a good way to go "hey guys I suspect something may be foul here"...people respond "nope". "okay good to know". It was also just as possible to name names, then other people "yeah I noticed that too" and now we get a cheater off the site.

[ QUOTE ]
Zeebo,
You really think arbiannight is good?

Also, these two players aren't colluding.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]I don't have a good read on him, but I assumed he was a winner; and imo, winner equals good.

[Sponger.]

Man, if someone other than limon would have made a post accusing people of "rampant cheating" they would have been ripped to shreds.

That would have been cool.

[El Diablo]

limon, bld, others:

I am positive there is a ton of collusion like that going on online. But there are also idiots beyond belief online. And superaggros of a level that you rarely find in live games. And supercallingstations. So, especially for someone who has not played a ton online (I do not know if this is true of you or not limon), it is often hard to distinguish between collusion and just standard revved-up online play.

I know for a fact I've played many hands at UB against certain players (as have all people who have played SH there) that probably look very sketchy. By this I mean, some guy bets, I raise w/ a weakish hand, third guy pushes, initial guy folds best hand, and I call and my weak hand holds up against some crappy draw or air. That is the sort of stuff that colluders also do (OK, bad example, since colluder would prob fold here, but you get the point). But that is also what people do when they are willing to play a big pot against certain chronic super-laggro bluffers.

This is much easier for me to do at a place like UB or Stars where the player pool is much smaller. I've seen people play there and had friends tell me they think these people are colluding, but based on a long history of knowing their individual styles, I've been 100% positive that they weren't colluding (ie: I've been paid off by them in similar situations, they've made insane bluffs at me that seemingly make no sense, etc.). On the other hand, I've seen near-identical looking behavior and have been sure it's collusion - and have had pokersites tell me I'm right and close accounts after looking at the players I've reported.

What's my point? It's that the sort of stuff limon is talking about (and many more more subtle forms of collusion) is surely going on. And it will be most apparent to people who have a lot of live experience and are used to sniffing out such things. But, a lot of super-LAG online play will also look similar.

While it's never fun to be wrongly accused of something, I do think this sort of open dialogue is important. Sounds like bld is just a player w/ a very wide-open style that has tangled in that way with a number of regulars here. However, I think this was still a good thread if it will result in some of you here being more aware of what sort of stuff sometimes goes on.