whats your play ??????????

[sedtheicon]

Poker Stars, $4 + $0.40 NL Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds, 7 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: 690
Hero (UTG+1): 2,000
MP: 5,570
CO: 1,725
BTN: 2,935
SB: 1,585
BB: 3,020

Pre-Flop: (75) K K dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG folds, Hero raises to 150, MP folds, CO raises to 250, 3 folds, Hero raises to 550, CO calls 300

Flop: (1,175) 9 7 A (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets 50, Hero calls 50

Turn: (1,275) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets 250, Hero folds

Results: 1,275 Pot
CO mucked and WON 1,275 (+675 NET)

[hagbard celine]

Understand that your weak 4bet preflop made your post-flop decisions tough.

Once CO minraises you preflop, the pot is t475, and it's t100 more for you to call. You want to start planning to get all the chips in. Not make another baby raise to t550 and Villain only has to call t300 more.

Shoving is an option, but a bit of an overbet. However, at this level, Villain might be so bad that shoving won't fold out middle pairs and weakish aces. Notice that by shoving you don't find yourself folding what is quite possibly the best hand on the turn when Villain bets 1/6 of the pot.

You can also put in a healthy raise preflop. After calling Villain's minraise, the pot is t575, and you want to raise about the size of the pot, something around an additional 500-575, let's say t500. This makes the pot t1075. Now Villain can either shove, in which case you call with a fistpump, or he can call, which makes the pot t1575. Now notice that given the size of the pot to your and Villain's stack, you are both committed to the hand, and it will pretty much play itself, regardless of the flop.

[EroTheMad]

My 4bet is all in here.

[hagbard celine]

[ QUOTE ]
My 4bet is all in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shoving is fine.

However, some other posters and myself have been talking a lot about this forum, and one thing we've found is the propensity for the brutish PF shove.

Understand that by shoving KK here you are losing a lot of value from hands that will fold to a shove, but will call a healthy but reasonable 4bet, not to mention hands that may fold to a shove, but may shove over a healthy but reasonable 4bet.

[LMAO]

I think your mistake was pf... you basically min reraised his 3bet. I would probably just shove here... this is a $4/180 noboby is folding JJ, QQ,AK or even AQs and very few are reraising with less than that.

[EroTheMad]

And we're crushed on A high flop a lot of times here. My second choice is go and go here.40 bb is too much but it becomes reasonable with 4bet. The things you said made sense to me really. Maybe my brutish all in decision comes from my downswing affected mentality and great +EV coming from our pre-flop domination. Maximize gain, maximize loss, and the thought of taking early edge and going for the first.

I think the real thing here is this is 4$ tourney and nobody is folding their AT+ hands after 3bet. If he was classic TAG of 4$ he wouldn't re-raise here without QQ+. And we're not folding KK pre-flop. Just shoving here makes things really easy. But i'll think about the things you said. Thanks.

[LMAO]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My 4bet is all in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shoving is fine.

However, some other posters and myself have been talking a lot about this forum, and one thing we've found is the propensity for the brutish PF shove.

[/ QUOTE ]


<font color="blue"> Sorry this whole statement seems pretty arrogant to me... </font>


[ QUOTE ]
[Understand that by shoving KK here you are losing a lot of value from hands that will fold to a shove, but will call a healthy but reasonable 4bet, not to mention hands that may fold to a shove, but may shove over a healthy but reasonable 4bet.

[/ QUOTE ]


<font color="blue"> I 'understand' what your saying may be correct theoretically, but at this level of the tourny i think you loose more value than you gain by making a finess play here. at later levels i would be more inclined to agree.</font>

[sedtheicon]

thanks everyone for your comments . my first thought was to reraise around 600-700 but i felt that i had the best hand and didnt want to lose my action. i put him on AQ-AX from previous hands and i wanted to see a flop so i can re evaluate postflop
and get his stack. the ace was a bad card and his weakish bets mad this hand more difficult than expected.

[hamnegger]

i don't like the cute reraise get more $ in pot. the ace really stinks but i might play this one through

[hagbard celine]

Not trying to be arrogant, but understand I that it came off that way.

Just trying to say that with KK PF we don't have to raise 3x the pot, as it can force a lot of hands we have crushed out, thereby losing a lot of value. Chips not won are chips lost.

I would tend to agree--and mentioned it in my first response--that at this level Villain may be unable to lay down hands like A9s+, ATo, 77+, etc, so a shove may be the easiest way to get all the chips to the middle with the best hand.

However, it should be repeated that we should be thinking about maximizing our value. And shoving 3x the pot PF so we don't lose to a Villain with an A is seeing monsters under the bed when we can find ways of getting Villain to stack off here with way worse hands.