Weird JJ hand live $1-$2, please play this through with me...

[iStackBooks]

Playing at the Green Valley Casino in Vegas. I've been at the table for around an hour, and have won a few decent sized pots without a showdown. Directly to my left is a very, very good (and aggressive) older player with around $800 in front of him (max buy in is $200).

He was raising a very high percentage of hands. He had 2 different raise sizes. With a big hand (AQ-AK, big pairs) he would raise $15-$20 depending on his position and how many people were in the hand. With non premium hands that he liked (pretty much ATC) he would make a small raise to $7 or so.

Early on in the session, there was a $6 raise by a MP player follwed by a series of calls. I was in the sb with K2o, and decided to make a play. I was pretty sure that the OR was weak (live $1-$2 players virtually never raise $6 with a strong hand preflop) so I was confident that I could pull off a sort of squeeze play here. I raised to $36, planning to expose my deuce if I took down the pot. The raise worked and I showed my 2, hoping to establish a loose image (I was actually playing very very tight) and possibly set up a play for later.

My general strategy was this - once I picked up a big hand (any big pair, maybe AK) I would limp, hoping for the aggressive player to my left to make his standard $7 raise (which he was honestly doing around 75% of the time that it was limped or folded to him). When the action got back to me, I could make a large reraise with the K2 hand fresh in everyone (and certainly his) minds.

So, I pick up JJ, limp, and I get what I want. He raises to $7, gets a few callers. It comes back to me and I again make it $36. He calls, and so does 1 other player who is barely covered by the reraise. We'll say there is around $120 in the main pot preflop. I have around $300 behind, and like I said before, our villain has us well covered.

I guess my first question (before we get to the flop) is this - what do you think of my general strategy preflop?

[iStackBooks]

I will be first to act on the flop, btw...

[KurtSF]

I don't think JJ is good enough of a hand to do this. You're setting people up to call your preflop RR... you want a hand strong enough to get it in on any flop like AA, KK, AK, and just maybe QQ. You see too many overcards with JJ to do this.


Also, how many callers did he get? The $36 strikes me as small if there was as much action as you suggest (4 callers before you?). He's getting set odds with any pair, premiums can shove and have you crushed, and closing the action one can easily rationalize putting in $29 to win the $90 in the pot (and $270 in your stack) with big cards or even SCs. Did you open limp JJ?

Congratulations getting yourself into a big pot, out of position, against an aggressive player, with very little idea what he has.

Just my $0.02.

I'm interested to see the flop.

[AlexB182]

I like how you set it up, but I don't think JJ is the hand to make this play with. With your K2off play, you was hoping to get action with a monster when you play it the same way later. Allright, you got your action but IMO, JJ can't stand that much action on most of the flops. Basically, I think you can only continue safely in that hand when you either spike a set or if the board is very low, every A,K,Q actually kills your play as, due to your setup play earlier, chances are really good even hands like A rag, KJ, KT, KQ etc stayed in there.
Therefore, I think AA or KK would been much more favourable for this kind of play...

[iStackBooks]

Kurt your math is a little off here. He raised to $7, and got I think 3 callers - roughly $30 in the pot. I make it $36 and there is now a little under $70 in the pot.

I feel like I made some mistakes in this hand which is why I posted it - no need for the hostile tone with comments like "Congratulations getting yourself into a big pot, out of position, against an aggressive player, with very little idea what he has".

In retrospect, I think I probably got a little impatient and really wanted to execute this play I'd been setting up so JJ looks like a monster. Obviously I'd rather do this with AA or KK but he never (seriously never) has QQ+ in this spot so I don't think JJ is that far off. Of course, we are going to encounter overs a lot of the time, but on any low flop I think he stacks off very, very light because of how I set this play up. Should I proceed with the flop?

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
Kurt your math is a little off here. He raised to $7, and got I think 3 callers - roughly $30 in the pot. I make it $36 and there is now a little under $70 in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, a PSB is ~$42. If you made it $50 you could at least kill set odds. Plus, how many calls can he expect from the passive players still to act who already cold-called one raise... probably at least one, maybe 2. Add that money in the pot and I'm not far off.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I made some mistakes in this hand which is why I posted it - no need for the hostile tone with comments like "Congratulations getting yourself into a big pot, out of position, against an aggressive player, with very little idea what he has".


[/ QUOTE ]

I apologize for the offensive tone. This place can be grating, and I get caught up sometimes. But the point I wanted to make with that comment stands - every decision you made preflop is a bad one, and set you up in an atrocious position.

So often the correct answer to a question is the answer not expected. Its usually "fold preflop", but in this case I think its "change seats to villain's left".

[iStackBooks]

No worries my man.

Unfortunately, a seat change wasn't an option. I'm still not totally convinced that we are setting ourselves up for an "atrocious" flop situation. Certainly we don't want to see a A, K, or Q on the flop. But if overcards hit the flop we probably aren't going to lose much more. When low cards hit, however, JJ is just as strong as AA because he will never show up with a higher pair, and he is probably stacking off with any TP. There will also be times when an overcard + a J hits which is very, very good for us.

Anyway, I agree that JJ isn't great in this spot but I have a hard time believing that it is remarkably bad. I'll get to the flop...

~$100-$120 in the pot, I have ~$300 behind

Q87 w/ 2 hearts

Do we give up at this point or throw in a c-bet?

[AlexB182]

Wow, Kurt, I wrote my post before yours was entered, good to see our opinions are close to equal here.
OP: Did you have the J of hearts? I think just giving up here is too weak, plus a Q is the overcard I'd fear least here. I CB...

[iStackBooks]

I do not recall whether or not I had the J of hearts...

My initial reaction was to c-bet. His range is so wide preflop that I am very likely ahead. How much?

[KurtSF]

You realize an overcard to your jacks will come over half the time, right?

Fire $90.