routine?

[Nietzsche]

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NL players also often tend to rely on their "reads" and often disregard the pot odds they are getting. This leads them to make bad folds fairly often.

And don't get me started on river value betting...

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yeah..lol on those nl dooodz who try to think through hands. dont they know your just supposed to spew chips pre flop/flop and bloat the pot so big that you then get to call call down for " the size of the pot". showdowns r fun!

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LHE is pain. 75% of the time you are losing in this spot, but since you only needed to be right 20% of the time you did the right thing calling down. As an NL player it is perhaps too tough on the ego to lose this often?! So you cling to the word "read", claiming we don't do this while in reality you may just be forgetting/leaving out factors that are important in the equation (including stone cold bluffs, 44-66, badly played overpairs/top pairs, the chance of cathing up/counterfeiting two pairs, etc). Even bad players at these limits know that aggression is key in LHE. Some take that concept too far and it should be a factor to be considered.

Yes, LHE can sometimes seem like a singleminded and not very complex game at times, especially on the late streets (AA needs to see a showdown always on boards like this). On the other hand, the situation that comes up all the time in LHE: steal raiser vs. big blind's any two seems much more interesting than the same situation in NL where big blind needs to be dumping a lot of hands - even in situations where he is often ahead.

[DeathDonkey]

Yeah Schneids this looks like a great example of "I picked up outs, better raise!" even though raising makes little sense against the range of hands that bets the turn into them there. I agree with you and see this crap from TAGs all the time.

-DeathDonkey

[Schneids]

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Yeah Schneids this looks like a great example of "I picked up outs, better raise!" even though raising makes little sense against the range of hands that bets the turn into them there. I agree with you and see this crap from TAGs all the time.

-DeathDonkey

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Basically limon, here in lies why you'd pretty much never fold AA even if hand reading and logic tells you you're toast. Like, in my AK hand, if my opponent is playing correctly, AK should never be good on the turn.

[Victor]

rofl schnieds youre so unrefined. if you could actually read hands like REAL poker player it would be so obv that on the turn he has a monster or a picked up draw. obv all the draws hit on the river. cts and limon would be 400 richer than you. typical plodding limit simplemindedness.

[Schneids]

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rofl schnieds youre so unrefined. if you could actually read hands like REAL poker player it would be so obv that on the turn he has a monster or a picked up draw. obv all the draws hit on the river. cts and limon would be 400 richer than you. typical plodding limit simplemindedness.

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Ya or they fold to his turn raise, or fold if the river bricks and he bets, and they're 1 big pot poorer. I've made river calls like this and gotten show KQo more times than I can count.

[siegfriedandroy]

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rofl schnieds youre so unrefined. if you could actually read hands like REAL poker player it would be so obv that on the turn he has a monster or a picked up draw. obv all the draws hit on the river. cts and limon would be 400 richer than you. typical plodding limit simplemindedness.

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Ya or they fold to his turn raise, or fold if the river bricks and he bets, and they're 1 big pot poorer. I've made river calls like this and gotten show KQo more times than I can count.

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I dont think this example is too similar to the one posted. As limon stated, he is not giving the turn raiser any credit until he 4 bets. Obviously, if his friend had just called the initial turn raise, limon is not considering folding. Once he caps, while you are correct that once in a blue moon he may cap junk, it is debatable whether a solid 26/19 is capping worse than 2 pair more than 8% of the time.

**Assuming llama's calculation is perfectly correct (that we have around 6% equity but need just over 8%), should we call and pay off the river improved?

[limon]

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rofl schnieds youre so unrefined. if you could actually read hands like REAL poker player it would be so obv that on the turn he has a monster or a picked up draw. obv all the draws hit on the river. cts and limon would be 400 richer than you. typical plodding limit simplemindedness.

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Ya or they fold to his turn raise, or fold if the river bricks and he bets, and they're 1 big pot poorer. I've made river calls like this and gotten show KQo more times than I can count.

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I dont think this example is too similar to the one posted. As limon stated, he is not giving the turn raiser any credit until he 4 bets. Obviously, if his friend had just called the initial turn raise, limon is not considering folding. Once he caps, while you are correct that once in a blue moon he may cap junk, it is debatable whether a solid 26/19 is capping worse than 2 pair more than 8% of the time.

**Assuming llama's calculation is perfectly correct (that we have around 6% equity but need just over 8%), should we call and pay off the river improved?

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not even close to similar. if were gonna use anecdotal eveidence to prove points the anecdote should at least be relevent.

[cts]

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rofl schnieds youre so unrefined. if you could actually read hands like REAL poker player it would be so obv that on the turn he has a monster or a picked up draw. obv all the draws hit on the river. cts and limon would be 400 richer than you. typical plodding limit simplemindedness.

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hey Victor maybe I'm crazy but this seems to be the second condesceding comment about me you've posted in a month or so both in threads I haven't even responded to (other one I played a hand pretty standard and you advised Dean not to fold b/c I was a rich idiot who loses hundreds of thousands or something)?

I don't read the limit forums too often (I like limon's posts so I thought I'd check this one out) and I don't claim to be an expert limit hold'em player, but your bbv posts always make you come off as a whiny bitch and 400x may be a little high but I'd venture to guess I've made more than you at poker, so ya ya anyways hu for rolls zzz

[Victor]

cts, from you blog post, and limon, from this post,and the rest of the dbag nl players, constantly belittle limit players and their skills. i think its bs. you guys arent more skilled, and arent smarter. youre very good at a different game. you dont know everything about poker so dont act like it.

its funny you take offense when someone even slightly mocks your precious nl given how much this forum [censored] on limit.

as for deans hand, if i remember it was a 4 way capped out pot and dean needed to call 2 more. i think they only way thats a fold is if you ONLY have aa or kk and proly not even there. jj, tt ak, aqs are all playable there. anyway, i figured you had a screw around factor in there since you play way higher stakes. even a lot of very good limit players could show up with a wider range there. thanks for telling me otherwise so i can properly adjust my range if i ever see you in 1-2 game.

you think im a bitch for makein a post when i dump huge portions of my roll? oh i forgot, youve never lost. must be easy for you. btw, i havent posted in bbv since april.

that you actually go out of your way to insult me shows you are sickeningly insecure. you got the money, the car, and the girl and you get all worked up when some poor internet nerd makes a mocking post thats hardly directed at you. mebbe you can buy a sense of humor with all that money.

or take a cue from aba, stox or jman. you dont see them gettign in internet squabbles.

[ImsaKidd]

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oh i forgot, youve never lost. must be easy for you.

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FWIW cts admitted in BBV that he only posts heaters and the like, rarely posting a downswing.