NL 100 - extracting value from two quad hands

[[Phill]]

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $107.75
BB: $155.70
UTG: $85.45
UTG+1: $121.25
MP1: $173.55
MP2: $80.00
MP3: $102.30
CO: $71.30
BTN: $14.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to $4.00</font>, 4 folds, BTN calls $4.00, Hero calls $3.50, BB folds

Flop: ($13) 3 9 3 (3 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $9.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises all-in to $10.50</font>, Hero calls $10.50, UTG+1 calls $1.50

<font color="blue"> I usually lead here, but with shorty and an UTG+1 raiser i decided to check with the idea to let them build the pot on this street. When UTG+1 bet 9 and BTN underraised i realised UTG+1 sucks at betsizing based on situations and that if i call he has to see the turn with a nice meaty pot to sink a stack into.

Does anyone reopen the betting to give UTG+1 a chance to stack off here whilst he seems interested?</font>

Turn: ($44.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 All-In)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $25.00</font>, Hero calls $25.00

<font color="blue"> I was planning on a check raise here, normally i would. Anyone call at all? Not really sure what i was thinking when i called, i probably thought calling and shoving river was less scary looking that a checkraise here.

I think this is the error street. Anyone disagree?</font>

River: ($94.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players - 1 All-In)
<font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $68.25</font>, UTG+1 folds
Uncalled bet of $68.25 returned to Hero

<font color="blue"> Well, played myself into a corner so i have no option but to shove here.</font>

Pot Size: $94.50 ($3 Rake)

BTN had K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and LOST (-$14.50)
Hero had 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (four of a kind, Threes) and WON (+$52.00)

So i took down an ok size pot - UTG+1 cant have had the overpair i thought he did and so its quite possible he has AK and wouldnt stack off with me anyway on the turn - but clearly i lost value if he has the flush draw at which point the flop was where i should have negotiated an all in from him.

Any better lines out there, or have i covered it in my turn analysis with a simple check raise?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $99.00
BB: $107.65
UTG: $172.50
UTG+1: $16.00
MP1: $100.35
MP2: $100.00
CO: $59.00
BTN: $56.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T (8 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $3.00</font>, 5 folds, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds

Flop: ($7) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $4.00</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $8.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16.00</font>, UTG calls $8.00

<font color="blue"> My donk bet was purposely small to make him give action. I guess i should be betting 6 as normal here, but with this flop i expected action from a donk bet and got it. Anyone dislike the 3 bet sizing, or is it pretty standard? </font>

Turn: ($39) T (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $15.00</font>, Hero calls $15.00

<font color="blue"> Now the problem i have is if he has a king, if i check raise or donk bet him he will put me on AT or something. I decided a check call plays best here and id stack off on any river. Arguably i should bet here because i would with AK, but at the same time with the unbeatable nuts its hard to bet the scariest turn in the world into him. Comments?</font>

River: ($69) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $65.00</font>, UTG folds

<font color="blue"> Who'da thought, he didnt have the K. Ho hum. Fwiw he took a while before folding, at the time i thought he might have been on AA but heinsight is 20/20. </font>

Pot Size: $134.00 ($3 Rake)

As it is, im pretty sure i take his stack on a brick river. Whilst i didnt hate the turn T at all [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] it kind of killed plan A to bet solidly and move those chips to the middle as fast as he allowed me but i figured the check tells a story of being scared here.

Anyone play this one differently and where?

Overally, when your as huge as quads the pot size isnt defined by you but your opponants - but i feel given the action they ahve given me i should have milked the teat for more than i got.

[chopsticks]

Quads are imo the hardest hand to win big pots with. Hitting a set is 10x profitable in most cases even though you end up losing more often than you would with quads.

How to get the best profit with your quads is always so dependable of your opponents hand (which is true with any other hand, too, of course) and if you don't know 100% sure what he's holding you never know what's the best play. After you see what villain had it's easy to analyze how you should have played but during the play it's hard since there are so much less options how villain could have hit the board than there is with sets, two pair etc.

Like in those cases, villain could have a flush draw or he could have a high pair or just AK or something else in hand #1. Played like that I would have shoved the river too to make it look like I was on a flush draw and didn't hit. That way he could make a thin call with his overpair because he probably wouldn't put me on trip 3's or a full house or definitely not on quads, BUT after he folded it looks like he had the flush draw or just two overcards etc and checking the clubfree river would have been better option. You never know, but imo getting a pot worth $69 with quads is pretty good.

In second hand there's a good chance villain is holding a K and would definitely call your shove but he folds hands like 99, flush, AA etc. That way solid play would have been better, but then again, you just don't know it well enough during the hand.

I myself like to play quads very strong. I would def lead, raise and push those rather than superslowplay and open push river because any card is good for you but there are only few cards in the deck that make your opponent get a good hand by turn and river. If your opponent folds, he just didn't have a hand good enough to call or raise with which is usual in headsup play when you're holding quads. There's also a fact behind this that most of the bad players at small stakes expect to be slowplayed all the time. If you bet or raise with your quads, they rarely think you have 4 of a kind. They could put you on trips but then again they wonder would you really raise with a hand like that.

Anyways, quads are always a good hand to hit but you can rarely expect to get stacked by someone. Try to exploit villains hand and define his range as narrow as possible and see how that fits into the board and do your best to win big time. If you don't win that time, don't worry. You probably won't win a big pot next time with your quads either.

[CalledDownLight]

hand 1 is fine imo.

hand 2 would be a 3bet to $25 on the flop for me. Your sizing just isn't that good imo. I make my normal cbet on the flop so whatever that is for you. I probably just lead the turn for like 1/2 pot, but as played the river is super standard.

[seki]

In the first hand I would lead the turn for slightly more than 1/2 pot. A lot of opponents will raise their overpairs there and commit. In the second hand I would also lead the turn. The T is a scare card to a lot of the hands you're representing, and again gives your opponent a "good" chance to raise. Rivers are fine, too bad he didn't have something good enough to call.

summary: Betting weak to induce raises on the turn is useful against aggros or thinking players, and I think these type of hands are great spots to max it in.