8/16...Poker Isn't Hard Enough, So I Make it Harder

[Harv72b]

The only relevant read is that I have no read--I have a total of 5 hands on villain, and he's folded all of them preflop. I flat call the preflop 3bet with the intention of taking exactly the line I did...check/call "safe" flop, check/raise "safe" turn. Then, this happens...

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $8/$16
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.5SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, Button calls.

River: (8.75BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero...?

Question the first: Do I call?
Question the second: Should I have check/called? Check/folded?
Question the third: What hand range do you put villain on (assuming he's a decent player), to take this line throughout the hand?

[WalkAmongUs]

1. call
2. should have raised the flop
3. Axs, JJ, 99, maybe KK or AA

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]

3. Axs, JJ, 99, maybe KK or AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are we calling?

[Harv72b]

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3. Axs, JJ, 99, maybe KK or AA

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are we calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's assuming that villain is not a decent player at least 1 in 11 times.

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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3. Axs, JJ, 99, maybe KK or AA

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Why are we calling?

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I think he's assuming that villain is not a decent player at least 1 in 11 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

But even a decent player only has hands we beat as a (small) part of his range. Against an unknown, I think this is a fold.

[BigBadBabar]

it looks like big hearts to me

[BigBadBabar]

or JJ

[BigBadBabar]

frankly i would pay off, pot is decent sized, i want to see what he has, there's a small chance we're good, and if not it can help us in future tangles with him.

[bernie]

Question the first: Do I call?

Yes. How can you not? He's about as unknown as an unknown gets.


Question the second: Should I have check/called? Check/folded?

No way you can fold to a guy you only have 5 hands with. Since you don't know him, he may very well pay off with many hands that you beat. His range, being an unknown, is wide.


Question the third: What hand range do you put villain on (assuming he's a decent player), to take this line throughout the hand?

Why would you assume he's a decent player just because he folded 5 hands? To me, this question is irrelevant but you might very well see a flush at the end. Maybe even 99. Call, find out, and make a note of it for next time.

If you fold this, are you really any further along in profiling this opponent? Because then what will you think the next time you're in this spot with him? Say, in a couple hands? You'd be just as lost.

b

[bernie]

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Against an unknown, I think this is a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you learn about this player if you fold?

Be more likely to call unknowns.

b