Bluffing river at .25/.50

chuckleslovakian · #1 05-23-2007, 05:19 AM

These are all hands that came up with a session I played yesterday. I considered bluffing at all of these spots, and wondering if any of them were good or not. Even though I did bluff at 2 of these 3 pots, is this something that I should seldom to at this level?

Hand #1
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

SB ($48.75)
BB ($50)
UTG ($58.85)
MP ($58.55)
Hero ($45.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $3.6, Hero calls $3.60, UTG folds.

Turn: ($10.95) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $10.45, Hero calls $10.45.

River: ($31.85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $11

Hand #2
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Button ($49.75)
SB ($147.85)
BB ($45.60)
UTG ($59.35)
MP ($46.90)
Hero ($46.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $3, SB folds, BB calls $3, MP folds.

Turn: ($10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls $7.

River: ($24) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $17.5

Hand #3
poker stars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Hero ($56)
SB ($50)
BB ($46.20)
UTG ($78.45)
MP ($165.45)
CO ($66.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75.

Flop: ($7.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50, SB calls $2.50.

Turn: ($14.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $8, Hero calls $8, SB folds.

River: ($30.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $8

Hands 1,2 the villian seemed like the low stakes 2+2 type while I was readless on hand 3. Also, feel free to berate any other decisions in these hands I made.

Kala1928 · #2 05-23-2007, 06:42 AM

Seems like you should fold turn in every hand. Bluff hand one.

Troll_Inc · #3 05-23-2007, 08:36 AM

At this level, I think in general bluffing is going to be -EV. I think you'll make more money value betting/calling.

I would only start bluffing once your opponents are folding to your winning hands >50-60% of the time.

And the considerations running through my head would be:
1. Can you read your opponent and know if he is drawing or just calling with a weak made hand.
2. Is your opponent capable of putting you on a hand? Then your bluff will succeed if he thinks he can't beat the hand you are representing.
3. Being able to play your bluff and the hand you are representing exactly the same way.

Carlson411 · #4 05-23-2007, 09:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
These are all hands that came up with a session I played yesterday. I considered bluffing at all of these spots, and wondering if any of them were good or not. Even though I did bluff at 2 of these 3 pots, is this something that I should seldom to at this level?

Hand #1
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

SB ($48.75)
BB ($50)
UTG ($58.85)
MP ($58.55)
Hero ($45.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets $3.6, Hero calls $3.60, UTG folds.

Turn: ($10.95) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $10.45, Hero calls $10.45.

River: ($31.85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $11

Hand #2
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Button ($49.75)
SB ($147.85)
BB ($45.60)
UTG ($59.35)
MP ($46.90)
Hero ($46.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $3, SB folds, BB calls $3, MP folds.

Turn: ($10) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls $7.

River: ($24) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $17.5

Hand #3
poker stars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.50 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Hero ($56)
SB ($50)
BB ($46.20)
UTG ($78.45)
MP ($165.45)
CO ($66.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75.

Flop: ($7.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $2.5, Hero calls $2.50, SB calls $2.50.

Turn: ($14.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $8, Hero calls $8, SB folds.

River: ($30.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO bets $8

Hands 1,2 the villian seemed like the low stakes 2+2 type while I was readless on hand 3. Also, feel free to berate any other decisions in these hands I made.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't like the bluff on the 2nd and the 3rd hands. You are trying to out bluff a paired bored. Thats not the place to bluff like that IMO. You may be against a full house and that BB betting back at you is telling you that he has one. Samething for the 3rd hand too. Any BS flush will beat your hand. Also agree with the guys below. Don't try to go out looking to bluff people off hands frequently especially at .25/.50. To be honest the level is to small for that. At this level once you go 200+ BB, people will say "the heck with it, Im up a good amount of money I can a.) draw out or, b.) I can call to see if my hand is the best." Its still good you are trying. Try more of a semi bluff.

Scottery · #5 05-23-2007, 10:28 AM

i dont like any of these tbh.

morphball · #6 05-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Wow - some of the advice here borders on the inane. Do you have any reads?

Hand 1, looks like a blocker. Might be a good time to fire a PSB, and if you're against regs, getting called is only slightly bad. Also, give some thought to raising preflop.

Hand 2. Fold the turn.

Hand 3 - on the flop, I think this guy is trying to set the price for a draw, raise the flop and see what happens.

autobet · #7 05-23-2007, 05:33 PM

Hand 1: Fold preflop. As played you should probably fold to the turn bet.

Hand 2: I like your bet on the flop. You should be betting a lot on these scary boards. Your opp called and bet into you on the turn. Scary and you have nothing...easy fold.

Hand 3: Reraise preflop half the time.
As played, I would probably fold on the flop or turn most of the time. Since you got to the river and his super small bet is probably a blocking bet you should probably make a large raise and try and steal it.

DonCologne · #8 05-23-2007, 07:07 PM

Hand 3: As played hero can represent a flush and with the ace in his hand he can play a bare ace bluff.
Villains bet is weak and it seems he is a little bit afraid of the third heart at the river. So I think hand 3 is the best spot to bluff out your opponent

iggymcfly · #9 05-24-2007, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like you should fold turn in every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFT. You're calling down way too light, especially in Hand 2. Also, you're too shallow to bluff the river effectively in Hand 1. In general though, it seems like your main problem isn't your frequency of river bluffs, it's how light your calling down to get there.

The advice of not bluffing at all at this level is also wrong however. Stars is super nitty, even at the lower levels, and being a nit yourself is far from the best way to exploit the games.

Troll_Inc · #10 05-24-2007, 11:56 PM

iggy,

No one said never to bluff at this level.

And my opinion of the games is that they are loose passive instead of weak tight nitty. Loose passive is bad for the bluffing business.

Just pick your spots and your opponents.

Ciaffone's books have good info on bluffing (at least I found it useful).