Hand from Borgata WPT

[AcidKnight]

[ QUOTE ]
to people saying angle shoot-

almost no one is smart enough to angle shoot

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[NLSoldier]

call and check/fold the river. after being so adament that he meant to call the turn, a river bet is never going to be a bluff or a thinish value bet with AK (not that it would normally be thin with AK but after this fiasco on the turn i think a guy like him is just gonna check it through and flip it over)

[deankeaton7]

You have to be 21 to play poker at a casino, and hes not a woman, so let's hope hes not drunk after two beers.

[Kuztah]

Theres one thing that troubles me, im pretty sure he would make a continuation bet on the flop with an ace here unless it was a monster than maybe he would decide to slowplay it. So basicly my guess is that hands that check the flop after he bet into a utg limper are hands that are disgusted by the flop or hands that hit hard (2 pair or sets). Once u bet the turn, and he calls i relaly dont think he could make this call with a hand like qq or jj with 2 mroe players in the hand.

For that reason, im tending to believe he has a monster.

[sirtimo]

[ QUOTE ]
Major Hint: People are focusing too much on what this hand is, and not enough on what this hand is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... going on way too long dude.

This better be some major "light-bulb-going-off-in-my-head" enlightenment about poker, love, life, eternity, religion, and nookie or I'm gonna be pissed.

[king_of_drafts]

Ansky and AJ gave me good lols in this thread, but if I don't get anything else out of it I am going to be really disappointed after all the hype ZJ is building

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
Theres one thing that troubles me, im pretty sure he would make a continuation bet on the flop with an ace here unless it was a monster than maybe he would decide to slowplay it. So basicly my guess is that hands that check the flop after he bet into a utg limper are hands that are disgusted by the flop or hands that hit hard (2 pair or sets). Once u bet the turn, and he calls i relaly dont think he could make this call with a hand like qq or jj with 2 mroe players in the hand.

For that reason, im tending to believe he has a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH Kuztah.

There are two possibilities here. 1) he meant to raise. 2) he didn't.

Many people have said 1 makes sense. It obviously does. AA would be by far the most likely hand for this line, with KK in a close second. AK and TT are also possible, but both are significantly less likely than AA or KK. If this is the case, we have to fold.

So now we must examine option #2. He meant to call.

There are really no hands that make sense with this line. If he had a suited connector, or some other unlikely bluff preflop, this is the PERFECT flop to bet. He HAS to bluff at this flop if he misses, and is certainly not dumb enough to make that huge raise preflop and not c-bet on this flop.

It is possible that he just meant to call again with the hands from #1 - AA, KK, AK, TT, but we still have a clear fold against that range, especially given that it's weighted more towards AA and KK.

So if he meant to call, what are we hoping he has. KQ? I suppose that's possible, but he would most likely c-bet the flop, and might not call the turn, but more importantly, he's not likely to 6x it preflop. There are a couple of other hands like this, but they are all really unlikely to fit the line he took.

So it clearly makes sense that this could be an angle shoot.

But if he raises big preflop, and then checks the flop, the turn call really doesn't make much sense at all, unless he is REALLY slowplaying something, in which case we still should be folding.

This is a clear fold IMO.

[ZeeJustin]

As the hand went down, I wasn't sure whether or not it was an angleshot. I didn't want to commit my stack, but I still wanted to get more value out of my set.

I decided to just call, and lead any river for 5k, folding to a shove. So the turn was another ten, and I led for 5k like I planned.

He instantly said all-in.

Despite having a plan, it still took me two minutes before I finally folded the hand, face up. He mucked his hand as he dragged in the huge pot.

The whole table was talking about this hand for a while. The BB claimed he had AA, but stood by his claim that the raise was unintentional.

The entire table (myself included) was in agreement that he did in fact have AA, but was lying about not intending to raise. We were all pretty confident that it was an angle shot from square 1.

[Number36]

I don't see him calling any big hand on that turn with two players in. If he has a huge hand he's given you one free card and then a scary turn comes and he's raising every time. That includes AAA. So either it's a genuine angleshoot or he actually meant to call the bet.

I think its really unlikely it's an angleshoot given the description of this guy. He also doesn't make a big fuss over it cos he meant to call not raise and he's praying everyone folds.

I don't think he checks an Ace on the flop so if your read is right that he has a big hand PF then that leaves TT-QQ.

So I put him on QQ / JJ here. Limped PF so he's less worried about an Ace, gets checked around, the spade draw comes, you're loose and aggressive, could be betting the draw. He peels one with the gutshot.

[ZJ123]

so whats the key?