Question about Outs

magictroll · #1 11-20-2007, 03:46 PM

How many outs are there for you if you're holding 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the flop shows 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Ok, I get that there's 4 8's and 4 3's for the Straight. 3 10's for the High Pair but are the 5's also considered outs?
Might seem like a basic question but I'm baffled [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

metsandfinsfan · #2 11-20-2007, 03:55 PM

what kind of converter is that

magictroll · #3 11-20-2007, 03:57 PM

What do you mean by converter?

metsandfinsfan · #4 11-20-2007, 03:57 PM

and it depends on what the other guy has
if he has AA then only the 8s and 4s are outs
if he has k7 then the tens are also outs as long as a king doesnt come on the river

etc etc

metsandfinsfan · #5 11-20-2007, 03:58 PM

i cant read your suits that is what i mean by converter -- but i can surmise you hold unsuited cards and it is a rainbow flop

magictroll · #6 11-20-2007, 03:59 PM

Oops, sorry, I fixed it.

magictroll · #7 11-20-2007, 03:59 PM

Assuming that you don't know what the person has, should you count the 5's as outs? (in General)

jacaranda · #8 11-20-2007, 04:03 PM

If you're calculating outs without knowing what your opponent is holding, it's really a judgment call as to whether you should consider your overcards or not. If the guy is betting into you or calling solid bets, I would NOT include the 10's as outs. I would never consider the 5's as outs in any case.

magictroll · #9 11-20-2007, 04:05 PM

Perfect, thank you!

Small Fry · #10 11-20-2007, 04:21 PM

Generally "out's" are the cards that make you the winning hand. First step is to put your opponent(s) on possible hands. Next what do you need to win. For example if another player has 8,5 then you have virtually no outs (backdoor straight with 8,9 or you could tie) but if a player has 5,5 then your outs are just the three 10's. 8's and 3's give you the tie. Any hand JJ+ then you have the 8's and 3's for 8 outs. So rather than counting the four 3's, four 8's and three 10's for 12 outs you can discount these to possibly 6, or even less. Sometimes they win for you, sometimes they tie, other times you hit and lose. They're not all "clean" outs where if you hit you can be almost certain you have the winning hand. Like if you had 8,9. Any 10 would be a clean out as it gives you the nut straight.

Hope that helps.

Good Luck