NL5: AA faces lots of action on the flop

ElectricWaffles · #1 10-18-2007, 05:12 PM

Hi all, this hand I played earlier today

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($3.68)
BB ($4.50)
UTG ($5.81)
UTG+1 ($5.58)
MP1 ($1.99)
MP2 ($4.02)
MP3 ($1.92)
CO ($5.26)
Waffles ($4.78)

Preflop: Waffles is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $0.08, 4 folds, CO raises to $0.24, Waffles calls $0.24, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20, UTG calls $0.16.

Flop: ($0.98) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.16, CO raises to $0.9, Waffles raises to $2, BB calls $4.46 (All-In), UTG folds, CO folds, Waffles calls $2.26.

Turn: ($10.56) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($10.56) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $10.56

Reads: UTG and CO are new to the table (30ish hands). BB is 14.3/3.3/inf over 90 hands. I'm playing a tight 12/7 ish sort of game.

Is a flat call preflop acceptable here? I thought another raise would turn my cards face up. I was hoping for a 2-3way pot on the flop and I assumed that CO's raise would achieve that. Is that usually the case?

On the flop I didn't know what UTGs tiny bet meant, I assumed not a lot. I assumed CO's pot-ish sized bet and his PF action indicated he had a big pocket pair like KK/QQ. I raised in hope of stacking CO. Is that okay?

After BB pushes and everyone else folds is calling okay? Has he/she got a draw (flush or OESD) enough here to make a call +EV? I think so but i'm not sure, so i'm putting it to you.

Thanks in advance

TheMayor · #2 10-18-2007, 05:15 PM

Preflop i would always reraise. Especially at this limit where they will pay you off with 99-JJ/AQ/mediocre hands like that.

On the flop i don't hate getting it all in here against those two. Can't think of any reason why either would have a seven given the preflop action. When the BB check/calls allin i think he must have you beat...but obviously no way we coulda known that would happen.

PolderBoy · #3 10-18-2007, 05:16 PM

i would have raised preflop to get some players out and some more money in.
as played I would have no problem to lay this hand down on the flop after a raise and a reraise.

ElectricWaffles · #4 10-18-2007, 05:48 PM

^^

Despite it being around $2.50 to call in a $9 pot?

PolderBoy · #5 10-19-2007, 03:57 AM

Well, problem is you got too many callers. I really can't believe someone doesn't have made his hand here.

Specialwon · #6 10-19-2007, 04:22 AM

I don't really understand why you called pf, how many times have you seen other players raise or push all in in that spot and then show down JJ, 99, nothing......so you are not playing your hand face up by raising, you're protecting it against players like BB with some random hand which now probably has you beat.

AA is very pretty, but it's just a pair, picking up the blinds and a few bets pf is a perfectly good outcome.

wikemang · #7 10-19-2007, 04:37 AM

4bet preflop, might as well get it in on the flop. You'll see a lot of random single-pair hands at showdown at 5NL.

ElectricWaffles · #8 10-19-2007, 06:17 AM

The raise preflop advice I expected. In theory I totally agree, I've got the best hand possible at this stage so I want to bet as much as I can.

My issue though is this, when I see somebody 5bet at NL5 it's (almost) always AA/KK and it makes the post flop betting sooooo transparent. Unless everybody else is braindead they'll spot it too and they'll go into setmining/headhunting mode, and that sucks balls.

Also there are only th blinds left to act should I call. Doesn't the value of conceling your hand and getting extra bets out of CO outweight the loss of value should SB or BB call a 6xBB bet? Basically I dont think that SB/BB will call a large PF bet often enough to justify my anouncing that I've got a super hand PF, chances are I'll end up in a 2/3way pot anyway, which is ideal.

Does that make any sense or am I talking out my arse here, lol?

Thx for the responses so far

BotOnTilt · #9 10-19-2007, 06:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My issue though is this, when I see somebody 5bet at NL5 it's (almost) always AA/KK and it makes the post flop betting sooooo transparent. Unless everybody else is braindead

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are over thinking it. I never called with AA/KK in NL5. If there is a low flop and you both have an overpair I think its rare for villain to get away. True that they might be scared, but that mainly means they will check-call all the way untill they are all-in on the river. You still see so much crazy stuff even though all the money will go in pre-flop. My favorite was when I was UTG w KK and 4-bet pushed - 4 way all-in and the last person to call had 22. KK vs KJo vs AA vs 22 and the set of 2's won [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also, the first raise was a min-raise, the 3-bet was about the size of a regular opening raise. I'd much rather have more money in the pot pre flop. I'd 4-bet 0.70 - 0.80

ElectricWaffles · #10 10-19-2007, 06:48 AM

Point taken.

Often when I post, I try and press the issue, that way it really helps me to define the ideas properly. I think it's worth questioning/testing the 'standard' lines.

Thanks for the response.