Why can't I believe? (is it a genetic predisposition?)

[vhawk01]

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Some interesting responses. I would specifically be interested in hearing some more answers relating to the question "if such a gene exists; would you wish it upon your children?". I guess you have to ask yourself which is the recipe for a richer person, but, also the one that will give your child the easiest life and fulfilment. When the majority of people have faith and society is shaped to accomodate their faith; do you want your child to be different and not experience the positive aspects of organised religion such as community, and, whether false or not, the belief in an afterlife?

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My goal is going to be to do the least amount of permanent harm to my children as possible.

[onesandzeros]

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I have 2 questions:

Supposing I wanted the ability to believe in a a God but just didn't have it in me to fulfil such a longing; am I a lesser or richer person than somebody who can?[/[ QUOTE ]


No lesser, but the ability to believe anything is anywhere that not believing is.

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Secondly, what are the chances that some people are born with a genetic predisposition rendering them incapable of faith and if such a gene exists; would you wish it upon your children?

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Your life is based on "faith". No realization can come from the resistance of anything not yet known. Once you figure out you know, you then figure out there is much more that you don't know. lol. Everything leads to something else.

[onesandzeros]

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My goal is going to be to do the least amount of permanent harm to my children as possible.

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Being I have a 3 y/o son, I couldn't agree with you more. My son is the purest thing in my life. Whats mind blowing is they are far smarter then us in many ways. LOL

[yukoncpa]

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I would specifically be interested in hearing some more answers relating to the question "if such a gene exists;

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Hi, I intentionally cut a great deal of your response so that I could respond to what I wished to respond to, so please forgive me.

Some theories and studies demonstrate that there may be a genetic component of religiosity or in my opinion credulity. Twins separated at birth tend to be equally religious or non - religious. Why? It is possible that religion is selected for because we are pact animals that happen to be very intelligent. Therefore in our early years, we may have questioned the alpha males ( or leaders ) due to our curious and intelligent nature. If the alpha male struck back, he struck back at those that questioned, and killed them or evicted them from the pact. Therefore, a theory, is that total acceptance of the leader was a selected for trait that helped to assure the survival of the pact.

link

edit - Ok, I provided a link, but I had better state that from the point that I said, “ it is possible that religion is selected for because we are pact animals . . .” is my own theory that I’ve tried to state before and have been shot down by people like Midge. But I think this time I’ve better stated my ideas and I still think they are good. Surely someone else has thought of what I am saying, but if not, then I wish to state them first on this forum.

[onesandzeros]

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Some theories and studies demonstrate that there may be a genetic component of religiosity or in my opinion credulity. Twins separated at birth tend to be equally religious or non - religious. Why?

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Any study claiming to suggest that our life is predetermined is flawed by design imo.

[yukoncpa]

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Therefore, a theory, is that total acceptance of the leader was a selected for trait that helped to assure the survival of the pact.


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I didn’t catch this in time to edit, but what I should of said is: total acceptance of the leaders ideas ( given that the pact animals were intelligent and discerning ) was a selected for trait. Else they were killed or evicted, etc etc.

Again, sorry for lack of reference, these are my own ideas and are unsupported.

[luckyme]

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Some theories and studies demonstrate that there may be a genetic component of religiosity or in my opinion credulity. Twins separated at birth tend to be equally religious or non - religious. Why?

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Any study claiming to suggest that our life is predetermined is flawed by design imo.

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Any claim that the word 'tend' means 'predetermined' is flawed, in anyones' opinion.

luckyme

[Splendour]

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Some interesting responses. I would specifically be interested in hearing some more answers relating to the question "if such a gene exists; would you wish it upon your children?". I guess you have to ask yourself which is the recipe for a richer person, but, also the one that will give your child the easiest life and fulfilment. When the majority of people have faith and society is shaped to accomodate their faith; do you want your child to be different and not experience the positive aspects of organised religion such as community, and, whether false or not, the belief in an afterlife?

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You're quite a deepthinker. sir. You remind me of Daniel Webster who once said "The most important thought I ever had was that of my individual responsibility to God."

This phrase you wrote particulary stuck out for me:

do you want your child to be different and not experience the positive aspects of organised religion such as
community

The organised religion phrase stuck out for me because it never reflects the unique individuality of the person participating in the organized religion. The bible specifically says we are to be "set apart". I can't speak for non-Christian religions on this. It also says we're to use our unique talents.

At the same time we're suppose to experience community. Also even though Christ himself decries the term "religion" the fact of the matter is that the organization of religion allows for the spirit to perpetuate in a more physical form though sometimes the spirit is not in its best form when under the guise of "religion".

[drzen]

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No, I don't worry about that. If there was an inborn inability there are still plenty of others around showing they have the ability.

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If I simply CANNOT believe in God, I certainly cannot accept Jesus, and therefore I will go to Hell. But I cannot go to Hell because that is grossly unjust. What could I have done? I had no free-will, I was simply born INCAPABLE of having faith. Much like people with Tay-Sachs are born incapable of breaking down gangliosides. If breaking down gangliosides was instrumental in getting to Heaven, how could you argue that it is just to keep the Tay-Sachs sufferers out?

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Okay, strike my saying that you made an excellent point, because even though it was, you made it for the wrong reasons. God doesn't have to be "just". He cannot be measured; he is his own measure.

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He must be just because he claims to be just. If he "is his own measure" than it is meaningless for him to claim he is just. Are you calling God a liar?

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Notice that I put just in quotes. This is because he doesn't have to fulfil your notion of "just". If you don't comprehend how what he has done is just, from his POV, that's because you do not have the correct measure for him. Is that really so hard to understand?

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Well anyways, thats not really the point. As you said he claims he gave us free will, and since I'm informed that the only RELEVANT aspect of will that determines its freedom is either the ability to choose Jesus or the ability to choose evil, finding out I was completely unable to choose Jesus is a pretty big strike against free will.

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What if your inability to choose is an outcome of choices you have made, but you are not aware that it is?

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Apparently its less important that I be able to choose to breathe underwater or that those with Tay Sachs are free to choose to metabolize gangliosides.

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But if you put on a SCUBA, you can breathe underwater. If you go diving without one, you have chosen not to be able to breathe underwater.

Now all you have to do is imagine that you do not know the function of a SCUBA, and have the belief that you can dive without needing to breathe.

[drzen]

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He must be just because he claims to be just.

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Hi Vhawk,

Are you sure that God claims to be just? I'm not doubting you, I just certainly don't believe that he is just, so I'm surprised that he even bothers to make the claim. Can you point out where he claims to be just?

He is clearly unjust here, and perhaps, oh, 100 other places:

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. -- Genesis 3:16

I'm just curious if there is any bible passage where God says he is just. It seems like from my memory, this is a claim he makes, but I can't find it.

Thanks

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This was a quick Google search:

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Isasah 45:18. For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD, and there is no other. 19. ... I, the LORD, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 21. ... there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. NKJV



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I'm no Biblical scholar, I'm certain I hear people claiming God to be just all the time, and that passage sure seems to spell it out. I could search more if someone objects to that.

EDIT: This too:
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Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.



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He does not suggest that he can be judged though.