Thoughts on the decreasing promotions in poker across the board?

[teh_mewse]

Why is the market getting worse and worse for the players?

When the concept of rakeback started getting more and more well known, i was licking my chops, not creating accounts at websites and hoping for them to compete with each other.

It never happened.

In fact its gotten worse. Sites that were offering 60% rakeback now only offer 30%. The biggest site that publicly offers rakeback, full tilt, deducts tons of fees. Absolute, long known as the webs most insane deal for the player, is now one of the worst.

Its almost like OPEC. Ever wonder why 1 gas station doesn't offer gas cheaper than the others? Its because they have an agreement to keep the price high.

World poker exchange is the one exception to this rule. 100% rakeback is every players dream... Besides the fact that its a rock garden (due to the fact that they have no money to advertise) and the software isn't very friendly.

What if World poker exchange decided to give out 80% rakeback, and spent the 20% on advertising or software upgrades. Frankly i don't actually mind the "software" per say, but moreso the interface.

I'm just baffled as to why no company has decided to offer an insane deal.......... yet.

Thoughts?

[Bobo Fett]

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Why is the market getting worse and worse for the players?

When the concept of rakeback started getting more and more well known, i was licking my chops, not creating accounts at websites and hoping for them to compete with each other.

It never happened.

In fact its gotten worse. Sites that were offering 60% rakeback now only offer 30%. The biggest site that publicly offers rakeback, full tilt, deducts tons of fees. Absolute, long known as the webs most insane deal for the player, is now one of the worst.

Its almost like OPEC. Ever wonder why 1 gas station doesn't offer gas cheaper than the others? Its because they have an agreement to keep the price high.

World poker exchange is the one exception to this rule. 100% rakeback is every players dream... Besides the fact that its a rock garden (due to the fact that they have no money to advertise) and the software isn't very friendly.

What if World poker exchange decided to give out 80% rakeback, and spent the 20% on advertising or software upgrades. Frankly i don't actually mind the "software" per say, but moreso the interface.

I'm just baffled as to why no company has decided to offer an insane deal.......... yet.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from the Prima cap and Absolute screwing with their terms, I don't think the RB market has changed that much in the past year, has it? Besides, I never found Prima that attractive since it is contributed, and most of the sites that have RB don't have much in the way of ongoing bonuses.

I guess it all depends on what stakes you play. I play low limit, so for me the best deals come from bonuses. Cryptos and UB with bonus & RB approach, and sometimes even exceed, 100% RB at these limits. Prima 5x bonuses are better than 100%, 10x are also very good. I suppose my perspective is different than it is for some others; playing low limit and usually only 1-2 tables, 4 at the most, I don't have to worry about running out of good bonuses any time soon. If you play higher limits and/or many tables, RB is even more important to you. That being said, I really don't see how things have changed much in terms of RB, especially for non-US, in the last year or so.

[Sniper]

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World poker exchange is the one exception to this rule. 100% rakeback is every players dream... Besides the fact that its a rock garden (due to the fact that they have no money to advertise) and the software isn't very friendly.

[/ QUOTE ]

... and the fact that they have a very small player base... pretty clearly, 100% rakeback isn't every players dream [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In kind of a strange sort of way... What kills rakeback?... When everyone knows about it...

[teh_mewse]

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Aside from the Prima cap and Absolute screwing with their terms, I don't think the RB market has changed that much in the past year, has it?

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No the market has not changed much. Thats part of my point i'm trying to make. Shouldn't smaller sites (tribeca, absolute, even smaller) be trying to attract new players with crazy bonuses and rakeback? In most business models, companies compete with each other to offer the best deal to their customers. Doesn't seem like thats happening with poker.

[Sniper]

mewse,

The best deal in Poker, is the site with the largest fish tank...

[The4Aces]

Here is a theory I have had in the past:

The sites in in-cahots on how much rakeback can be offered. They know that if they start letting their affiliates offer 40% that means their compitition will start allowing around 40$. The status quo will just raise to 40% and the initial site offering the 40% will gain nothing, but lose more to the affiliates.

[teh_mewse]

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mewse,

The best deal in Poker, is the site with the largest fish tank...

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i absolutely agree. Party is the best deal. But for a new/small poker site, how do they plan on attracting players? I THOUGHT by now someone would have bought up a site with a small player base, say cake poker, advertise the crap out of it and offer like 70% rakeback..... even 50%, or 40$%

It just seems like EVERY site is locked at 30. Isn't that weird to any of you?

Take my example

Grocery store A is huge, great customer service, clean, and charges $5.00 for a loaf of bread.

Grocery store B is further away from town, not as good a selection..... so why would people shop there? Well, one way is to charge $4.00 for a load of bread.

See what i'm getting at here. It just seems like the sites aren't competing with each other

[teh_mewse]

afterthought:

The only conclusion i can come up with is that although most rakeback players are high volume, they don't make up for a significant portion of players.

Anyone have any idea of what % of players receive rakeback? My GUESS would be under 10%, but i'm completely shooting in the dark there.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
mewse,

The best deal in Poker, is the site with the largest fish tank...

[/ QUOTE ]

i absolutely agree. Party is the best deal. But for a new/small poker site, how do they plan on attracting players? I THOUGHT by now someone would have bought up a site with a small player base, say cake poker, advertise the crap out of it and offer like 70% rakeback..... even 50%, or 40$%

It just seems like EVERY site is locked at 30. Isn't that weird to any of you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure how long you have been playing, but the 30% standardization is recent... and it kind of developed over time.

The type of competition you envision was killing the "Networks"...

Starting with Party, as an example... they spent all this money bringing in customers and then bam their players slowly learn they can get rakeback at Empire... bam players start shifting, the network is preying on the master... plus the non-RB affiliates who drive the majority of customers are getting raped, as their players take their MGR to Empire for RB, whoops... Party shuts down its network and buysout its partners... bye bye RB at Party...

Another network, Prima, learns the same thing as RB affiliates get smart and put their own site on the network... whoops, now you can get 65% rakeback again by simply shifting which skin you play through... the skins that bring in all the new players start complaining.. bam, new rules, rakback cap...

Not to mention all the other things going on that are increasing site costs (UIGEA, Neteller, etc)... higher Expenses, Lower Rewards...

ps... While in network shifts are easy, the number of players that actually chase RB deals all the way to a different fish tank, is very small.

How does a site bring in players... not by competing for current players, thats a losers game... the avg lifespan of an internet poker player is like 9 months (maybe less). The only way to build traffic, is to attract NEW players... continuously!


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Take my example

Grocery store A is huge, great customer service, clean, and charges $5.00 for a loaf of bread.

Grocery store B is further away from town, not as good a selection..... so why would people shop there? Well, one way is to charge $4.00 for a load of bread.

See what i'm getting at here. It just seems like the sites aren't competing with each other

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not thinking this one thru... Most people will pay a buck more to get something 1 block away, rather than go out of their way to save a buck. [and this is generally the correct strategy, for anyone who values their time]


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afterthought:

The only conclusion i can come up with is that although most rakeback players are high volume, they don't make up for a significant portion of players.

Anyone have any idea of what % of players receive rakeback? My GUESS would be under 10%, but i'm completely shooting in the dark there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, RB players are a small group in the aggregate, their numbers had been growing significantly though.

I'll add another factor, based on some collected info (roughly)...

The Avg MGR for a Poker player = $100/month
The Avg MGR for a Rakeback player = $400/month
We know that there are some players with significantly higher MGRs, so the mean must be lower on both.

Bottom Line: The only way to truly build a Poker Site, is to organically bring in New players... and those players aren't (for the most part) saying... Hmm there's a bunch of rooms which should I chose?... those new players see some ad, offline or online, decide to signup, and that's where they play...

Thoughts?

[AAAA]

the ideal poker scenario for both pros and amateurs:

5 poker rooms with different software...eg. round tables, lifelike players, tournament focus, fast software, or slower software.

rakeback based on combination of rake paid, referrals and longevity

health insurance and other benefits based on legitimate group buying power...just like AARP or other groups

promotions and incentives should be based on getting players to the sites at odd times, to start games or to play higher limits.

it could even be that when you signed up for one site, you signed up for other sites through the same marketing program and that would make it so the marketer really looked out for you, since they care that you are having fun and are successful. they don't care where you play, but rather that you continue playing poker.

if a new site had a great idea, they could bring people over, but the procuring cause would still get a piece of the action...and the player gets to choose where they like it most!

the sites could even go through their list of players who do not play and offer them a special deal at another site...often a person leaves because they didn't like one thing about a site...a deal breaker...but that might not happen at another site.

the final piece is to get advertising to pay the rake! like commercial television, there are people who are willing to sponsor tables and events just to be able to advertise their products to our demographic.