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  #1  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:51 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default What is your line here?

EP: Very loose, aggressive, tricky Asian player. Loves to limp reraise, usually with suited cards. For the most part he is straightforward post flop but can get out of line. He will raise the flop with second or third pair but will check the turn uninproved. He has bluffed from start to finish before, but very rarely. He respects my play.

MP: Tight, passive, straightforward.

EP limps, MP raises, folded to me in BB and I decide to just call with TdTc. If I three bet EP will almost always cap it here. I prefer to keep the pot small here out of position especially after a tight player has raised(Although this could be a reason to three bet it since I could outplay MP postflop) EP now raises, MP just calls and I call.

The flop: Kc6h7s

I am first to act. How should I proceed? Should I have three bet preflop?
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2007, 03:10 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

this is 100% a 3bet pf and the fact that you are trying to rationalize not doing it is very telling.
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:38 PM
WMB WMB is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

Check the flop. If MP is straightforward, you should get a better idea where you stand after seeing the action. If it goes check, bet, I might raise given mp's tendencies. If ep bets and mp raises, I'm done. If ep bets and mp calls, I might call and bet most turns.
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Old 11-27-2007, 04:42 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

[ QUOTE ]
this is 100% a 3bet pf and the fact that you are trying to rationalize not doing it is very telling.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what is it telling?
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:20 PM
Sailboats Sailboats is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

[ QUOTE ]
Check the flop. If MP is straightforward, you should get a better idea where you stand after seeing the action. If it goes check, bet, I might raise given mp's tendencies. If ep bets and mp raises, I'm done. If ep bets and mp calls, I might call and bet most turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Also i think he was trying to say you're weak-tight. I would 3-bet this preflop.
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:29 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

it's an easy pf 3bet for value against bad opponents especially those who will raise and cap crappy holdings. if you're rolled for this level you shouldn't be afraid of playing big pots with big hands against bad opponents. not playing optimally preflop then getting worried on a one overcard flop sounds like you may be playing scared money or may not be properly rolled for the game (no offense meant obviously; as this has happened to a lot of us)
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:43 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check the flop. If MP is straightforward, you should get a better idea where you stand after seeing the action. If it goes check, bet, I might raise given mp's tendencies. If ep bets and mp raises, I'm done. If ep bets and mp calls, I might call and bet most turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Also i think he was trying to say you're weak-tight. I would 3-bet this preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK! I am going to give you kids a little lesson. First, set down your Ed Miller book. Ready?

The theoretical correct play when you have the best hand preflop is to raise and reraise as is probably the case here. However, as you gain expertise you become capable of making reads that allow you to divert from the assumed correct play. This is playing counterintuitively if you will.

In this situations I could have threebet preflop, the UTG would have capped since thats what he does in these situations and the MP would have called. Now, do I have any better read on what MP has. NO!

In this situation, I called, EP limp-reraised(as predicted) and MP just called. Now, do I have a better read of what MP has?

There is also deceptive value to just calling here since I could have a pretty big range of hands I called with. If I three bet my range would be much smaller.

I usually do three bet in this situation but decided to take a different approach. My biggest problem is that I am overly aggressive certainly not weak tight.

Now stop believing everything you read and start thinking for your self.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:52 PM
that_pope that_pope is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

Pretty defensive there. You asked for advice, and were told the standard play in a vacuum is to threebet. If MP is totally a rock who never raises without JJ+, then a threebet isn't optimal, but that is read oriented, as is you knowing the limper will raise here.

As for your question, you have no play but to check, you said you didn't threebet so you could get a good read on the situation, so let your reading skills at it while you check.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:57 PM
jkamowitz jkamowitz is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

If you believe what you say, shouldn't you then cap it after utg lrr'd? Consider:

If you're concerned about gaining information on mp's hand, you can now rule out AA/KK/QQ/JJ?/AKs, therefore according to your "theoretical correct play" you should cap assuming utg holds enough cheese as you say he does.

I agree that sometimes you should call in this situation and sometime's three-bet. But not for the reasons you stated.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:57 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

Didn't mean to sound defensive. I just think it is funny when you play a hand different than how others would how quickly they are to label you weak tight.

By the way, I didn't ask for preflop advice.
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