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  #11  
Old 11-27-2007, 06:07 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

You are correct. I decided to play differently.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2007, 06:46 PM
Sailboats Sailboats is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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Check the flop. If MP is straightforward, you should get a better idea where you stand after seeing the action. If it goes check, bet, I might raise given mp's tendencies. If ep bets and mp raises, I'm done. If ep bets and mp calls, I might call and bet most turns.

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Agreed.

Also i think he was trying to say you're weak-tight. I would 3-bet this preflop.

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OK! I am going to give you kids a little lesson. First, set down your Ed Miller book. Ready?

The theoretical correct play when you have the best hand preflop is to raise and reraise as is probably the case here. However, as you gain expertise you become capable of making reads that allow you to divert from the assumed correct play. This is playing counterintuitively if you will.

In this situations I could have threebet preflop, the UTG would have capped since thats what he does in these situations and the MP would have called. Now, do I have any better read on what MP has. NO!

In this situation, I called, EP limp-reraised(as predicted) and MP just called. Now, do I have a better read of what MP has?

There is also deceptive value to just calling here since I could have a pretty big range of hands I called with. If I three bet my range would be much smaller.

I usually do three bet in this situation but decided to take a different approach. My biggest problem is that I am overly aggressive certainly not weak tight.

Now stop believing everything you read and start thinking for your self.

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Why are you so condecending? Why do you think that people only follow what is written in 2+2 Books? None of this is true.

Many people made some good posts in this thread and you get upset about it? Maybe it is better to call instead of 3-bet, but we are all replying to what you typed. None of us were there to determine reads, we can only go off of what you typed. That being said, i still don't see why its a problem if you 3-bet and a laggy player 4-bets. You are putting in 4-bets with the most likely the best hand against EP player. Although you do have to worry about MP, but this is not a good enough reason to forgoe value against EP. Ok so you are out of postion and it makes the harder to play... that's fine.

On the flop you lead and EP will probably not raise with QJs [given read] and MP will be playing Fit or Fold. The 3-bet i feel makes the hand easier to play. MP raises you than its a n easy fold. Also by taking this like you may get MP to fold QQ-88... maybe.

Anyway i think this is an easier way to play the hand and has been working for me at the casino.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:12 PM
bakku bakku is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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Didn't mean to sound defensive. I just think it is funny when you play a hand different than how others would how quickly they are to label you weak tight.

By the way, I didn't ask for preflop advice.

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what's the point of posting in an advice forum if you don't want any advice?
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:19 PM
pjf1969 pjf1969 is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

I think your preflop call is fine. I love to donk into the EP hoping he raises thinly knocking out mp. If mp puts another chip in the pot you now have an easy decision. If not you can check call EP to river.
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:58 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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Didn't mean to sound defensive. I just think it is funny when you play a hand different than how others would how quickly they are to label you weak tight.

By the way, I didn't ask for preflop advice. [/quo

what's the point of posting in an advice forum if you don't want any advice?

[/ QUOTE ]

This reply makes no sense and is a waste of time.
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  #16  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:57 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

Go for a check raise and try to get it heads up. It will be tough to prevail at showdown with three way action here.

I take Sklansky's advice from "Holdem for Advanced Players."He advises that most decent players will throw away a king. So I just turn that K to an x, and check raise the flop, then bet for value on the turn and river, especially if one other player folds.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:17 PM
mongidig mongidig is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

I think Sklansky was refering to short handed games as far as turning the K to an x if I understand what you are saying correctly.

How am I going to get it heads up by check-raising if the most likely bettor is the EP? MP is going to fold anyway unless he hit this flop.

Check-raising is bad here because it allows EP or MP to play perfectly depending on what they hold since they have position. If they are beat they can get away from the hand and if they are ahead they have choices as to how to proceed.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:32 PM
ActionBob ActionBob is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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By the way, I didn't ask for preflop advice.

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Am I just imagining this line from the original post then?

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Should I have three bet preflop?

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-ActionBob

P.S.- Yes
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:33 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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I think Sklansky was refering to short handed games as far as turning the K to an x if I understand what you are saying correctly.

How am I going to get it heads up by check-raising if the most likely bettor is the EP? MP is going to fold anyway unless he hit this flop.

Check-raising is bad here because it allows EP or MP to play perfectly depending on what they hold since they have position. If they are beat they can get away from the hand and if they are ahead they have choices as to how to proceed.

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Sorry, I was confused since your post said you were first to act. I recall where Sklansky said change it to an x in the short handed play chapter. However, I use the same technique here. A check raise would not be bad if second to act, as long as you could be certain it would be bet behind you. Otherwise this is a simple problem, just bet if you are in second to act and it is checked to you on the flop. I wouldn't let the flop go through for free holding pocket tens. I wanna make somebody fold. Sounds like you gave out the dreaded free card.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:22 PM
Mr Rick Mr Rick is offline
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Default Re: What is your line here?

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If you believe what you say, shouldn't you then cap it after utg lrr'd? Consider:

If you're concerned about gaining information on mp's hand, you can now rule out AA/KK/QQ/JJ?/AKs, therefore according to your "theoretical correct play" you should cap assuming utg holds enough cheese as you say he does.

I agree that sometimes you should call in this situation and sometime's three-bet. But not for the reasons you stated.

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This is gold right here... It also makes the flop easy. When you lead out, EP may raise with air as you say earlier, but MP folds either way without a K. Then you find out on the turn what EP has. Or you may take it down on the flop.

As played I check the flop and fold if MP remains in the hand when EP bets out.
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