Do you win at 6/12 at the Bay 101?

[threeducks]

What I am trying to figure out is if I will ever be able to win at the end of the year playing 6/12 at the Bay 101 or just give it up. I might not get any responses to this which is what I would expect since it is a silly and counterproductive poll. I was going to ask if you win or lose at 6/12 at the bay 101 at the end of the year. Now before you flame me, let me explain. 1) counterproductive since the players would not want me to quit playing there by telling me that no one wins but a small handful - they want me to continue to provide them income. 2) silly because everyone that posts on 2+2 are winners except me. So the results is not very reliable. Every response would be I win.

So, how can I get the information that I need to make a decison? How about this question? What percentage of the players actually win at 6/12 at the bay 101? That won't work.

Well, back to my orginal question. If I get as many as 10 yes responses then I will think that it is possible just very hard. I have been playing there for 3 years and I lose $12/hr. I figure it costs me $15 an hour in rake and blinds so I have a long way to go.

[threeducks]

I wanted this to be an anonymous Poll for obvious reasons so if it is ignored it will not hurt my feelings.

[elitegimp]

I've never played at the Bay, but I sat in the 6/12 at MGM once and lost a couple hundred bucks in like 45 minutes... in my defense, I was playing decently but either not hitting draws I had odds to chase or getting sucked out on (of the Qx > AQ after a Qyz flop).

I'm probably going to stick to 3/6 and 4/8 next time I got to Vegas, or maybe donate some money in a 1/2 NL game. If I run hot, though, I'm definitely taking another shot at 6/12 (:

P.S. I'm not voting either way because I'm obviously not a member of the target audience of this poll.

[threeducks]

Thanks - it is specific because of the $4 rake and the $1 tip. Las Vegas has a better rake structure. If I played at Bellagio 4/8 I would be a winner. But in CA the rake is actually a drop of $4 when there is a flop no matter how big the pot is. That is a huge percentage of many pots.

[Onaflag]

I don't play there all that often, but a friend of mine who lives a lot closer does. He tells me the 6/12 game is a nit-fest and the place to be is 8/16 w/hk. Lots more action.

Onaflag........

[threeducks]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play there all that often, but a friend of mine who lives a lot closer does. He tells me the 6/12 game is a nit-fest and the place to be is 8/16 w/hk. Lots more action.

Onaflag........

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks that is good to know.

I have played the 8/16 game and it lineup specific IMO. Some players can burn your chips if you are not careful. Big swings can occur. I sometimes win +800 and sometimes lose -800 in a session. So, now I mostly stick to 6/12 where there are more tables going.

[*TT*]

This is where I get to wear my tough love hat - You need to move up so people will respect your raises ;p

Of course people beat the game. sorry to hear your not. Turning to the B&M forum to figure this out is a waste of time IMHO, start working on your game to figure out all the things your doing wrong by spending time in the strategy forums on 2+2 (which i know you already do - just pointing out its part of the plan), watching videos on sites like Deuces Cracked (they do single table limit videos, perfect for your situation), and lasty reading and re-reading Small Stakes Hold'em, How Good is your Limit Hold'em, and Winning in Tough Hold'em Games (this book is like loaded dynamite though, make sure you know how to adjust the strategy accordingly to the table texture found in the 6/12 game). My advice would be to take a month off of playing, only focus on learning and reading for 30 days - then return. Self Improvement!

PS: The VAST majority of players on 2+2 are not winners/suck at poker/etc. This place has a magical "feel good" vibe where people tend to think that by posting here they play good, that couldn't be father from the truth for most. But thats ok, the path to enlightenment is through knowlege of your own ability. First step is accepting you need to work on your game (which it seems you have already done), second step is to figure out why your losing - is it just varience, short term results oriented thinking?

PPS: For what its worth I am stuck for the year, I haven't turned a profit yet [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] This is the first time I've ever been in this situation, its about time varience looked down on me unfavorably!

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course people beat the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know that this is true. I think anybody good enough to beat this game quickly moves up. I'm becoming convinced it's near impossible to beat 6/12 or lower for any sort of recognizable long-term profit in the Bay area because of the drop, the charges for food and drink, the tips, and the higher percentage of local nits compared to more tourist-heavy room. I've stopped playing entirely and am focusing online to build a bankroll big enough to jump in at 15/30.

[pig4bill]

I haven't kept track as well as I should, and I haven't played there much in the last 3 months trying to gear up for the WSOP, but I'm probably about break even, which isn't in your poll.

I very seldom have encountered nitty tables. They are usually fairly loose, which is tough to beat if you're not getting the cards. Sometimes they are very loose and wild, in which case I'm mostly a spectator. Since I mostly get crappy cards, I don't have consistent results. Either way, I wouldn't sweat the rake that much because the pots are usually fairly big. You'd be paying the same in Vegas for the most part.

I'm sad to see the 2/4 game disappear, apparently to make room for the higher raked spread limit games. The 2/4 brought in lots of new blood and I think they're going to be hesitant to step up to 3/6.

What does "8/16 w/hk" mean?

edit: I forgot to mention the luckbox warning. Maybe it's just coincidence, but it seems like there are more monster luckboxes in the 6/12 games than others. If you sit down at the table and see 1 or 2 guys with a mountain of chips, be wary of them for awhile. If they're playing almost every hand, you're not going to beat them no matter what you have. They are on a monster rush and the only time they fold is if they are falling behind on stacking their chips.

[DeepCroak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't play there all that often, but a friend of mine who lives a lot closer does. He tells me the 6/12 game is a nit-fest and the place to be is 8/16 w/hk. Lots more action.

Onaflag........

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks that is good to know.

I have played the 8/16 game and it lineup specific IMO. Some players can burn your chips if you are not careful. Big swings can occur. I sometimes win +800 and sometimes lose -800 in a session. So, now I mostly stick to 6/12 where there are more tables going.

[/ QUOTE ]


<begin brag>
In my opinion and experience (a few hundred table hours total, not huge, but I'm a recreational player) the B101 6/12 and 8/16 are both quite beatable with basic SSH strategy. I'm doing about 0.5 BB/hr at both, and I feel like I've got plenty of room for improvement.
<end brag>

Both games are lineup specific, of course, and you do see a few players in the 8/16 slumming after busting out of 20/40 (but if they play 20/40 like they play 8/16, I need to build my roll to get into the 20/40!). But overall I don't think there's a major difference in quality of opponents. The drop is a smaller percentage of the blind at 8/16, so if you have the bankroll to handle the swings I'd play 8/16.

If you're swinging that much consistently, I think you may be playing a pretty laggy game. Of course, I'm almost always the tightest player at the table, often getting comments like "You haven't played a hand in 2 hours and now you're raising? I call." Unfortunately that comment is sometimes followed by a bad beat. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

BTW, the Garden City 8/16 has the half kill, not the B101 8/16. Haven't played GC 8/16 yet...

Oh yeah - and what TT said. Excellent advice.