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#21
07-23-2007, 02:29 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Player A flips up middle pair with no kicker and player C shows a flush. Now comes the interesting part. Player A mucks his hand (power mucks) in a way that his cards are unretievable. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see how his cards are unretrievable. There is no more action and we know his cards. So turn over the muck pile and fish out his cards. [/ QUOTE ] I have no floor or dealing experience, but this is exactly my reaction to reading the OP. 
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#22
07-23-2007, 04:30 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
If he hadn't mucked his cards, he would have had every right to draw at the runner-runner boat. But by intentionally power-mucking his hand, he conceded the hand, and his right to draw. I'm not one to give the muck magical powers, but in this particular case, mucked is mucked.
Al
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#23
07-23-2007, 04:56 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
How high was the flush that player had? If it was possible for the turn and river to have been higher of the same suit cards then they could have chopped right? The player with the mucked cards could have played the board?
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#24
07-23-2007, 05:11 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
[ QUOTE ]
If he hadn't mucked his cards, he would have had every right to draw at the runner-runner boat. But by intentionally power-mucking his hand, he conceded the hand, and his right to draw. I'm not one to give the muck magical powers, but in this particular case, mucked is mucked. Al [/ QUOTE ] It isn't about his right to draw. It is about the other players' rights for him to draw an hit runner-runner to knock someone out of the tournament.
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#25
07-23-2007, 06:10 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
If I was dealing that hand, I would've called the floor before proceeding (please don't take that as Monday Morning Quarterbacking).
If I was the floor, I would agree with Player B 100%, and do what needed to be done to remedy the situation. (To those of you who fail to see Player B's point: Player B sure doesn't want to play a tournament with a big stack sitting to his left. Player B has a very vested interest in the outcome of this hand.)
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#27
07-23-2007, 09:15 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
[ QUOTE ]
What would happen if C tabled his flush and A mucked his hand in an irretrievable way without ever showing it? [/ QUOTE ] In such a case, A should get a warning for the first offense, and and a penalty if it happened again.
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#28
07-23-2007, 09:28 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
Just to be clear: If this were a cash game the dealer is correct in ending the hand and B gets chided under the one player to a hand rule, correct?
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#29
07-23-2007, 09:50 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
[ QUOTE ]
If he hadn't mucked his cards, he would have had every right to draw at the runner-runner boat. But by intentionally power-mucking his hand, he conceded the hand, and his right to draw. I'm not one to give the muck magical powers, but in this particular case, mucked is mucked. [/ QUOTE ] I think the point is that, because this is a tournament, Player A can't concede the hand. Chip dumping is very unethical in this situation. Additionally, if a hand is tabled after an all-in, cards speak and the hand cannot be killed. The turn and river should be dealt, and Player A should be given a warning from the floor.
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#30
07-23-2007, 10:04 AM
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Re: All in, muck...
[ QUOTE ]
Just to be clear: If this were a cash game the dealer is correct in ending the hand and B gets chided under the one player to a hand rule, correct? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, in a cash game, nobody has any interest in the outcome between Players A and C. And if I was Player C, I would chide Player B and tell him to butt out when he's not in the hand. If Player A wants to give up his 2% chance to win, all the better for me and the rest of you can mind your own business.
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