Overplayed fullhouse?

Profish2285 · #1 04-20-2007, 01:24 AM

The way this hand played out until the river, it seemed either like a big pair, or overcards. When the river hit, I figured it could be AK or something of that nature, but once he raises my bet is a call standard or should i go for the three bet?

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $21.55
UTG+1: $12.05
CO: $36.30
Button: $18.85
SB: $114.95
BB: $19.30

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.75BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8.75BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 16.75BB
Hero mucks 6c 6h

Nick C · #2 04-20-2007, 01:33 AM

Your read on Villain's holding based on the play up until the river is good, and the river 3-bet is fine too, I think. Sure, some Villains in this spot aren't going to raise with just AK on the river, fearing your turn checkraise means trip T's, but I do think Villain is going to have a big ace a good chunk of the time, and it's not until he caps the river that I'm really thinking I'm screwed, and even then it's going to be a "what the hell" or a frustration cap that I'm facing on occasion.

Edit: I mean, undiscounted, AK/AQ is 24 combos while AA is only 3. And while I do think we should discount AK/AQ once Villain raises the river, maybe even heavily, I don't know that we should discount all the way down to 6 combos.

Profish2285 · #3 04-20-2007, 01:35 AM

I had that feeling of nausea when he capped the river, but I dont think I can ever fold here with the odds I am getting at this point.

jstill · #4 04-20-2007, 01:38 AM

ehhh I think he has AA or AT when he raises ur hand on the river alot(rarely quads or 88 as well), I think its much more those than Ax or a hand like Tx KT that 3bet preflop. I think almost all would 3bet AT on the turn cuz trips tk most dont even think there, but if hes good since u raised utg if he has that AT really only 88 or 66 beat him, but i guess he only beats KT or QTs ud play this way so....

if hes reading hands uve played ur hand like Tx QJ or a bdfd so he shouldnt raise against that range ever with AK, and sometimes would ck behind for a freeshowdown with AK (i wouldnt probably but some will).

I really wanna just call the river raise.

Nick C · #5 04-20-2007, 01:39 AM

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I had that feeling of nausea when he capped the river, but I dont think I can ever fold here with the odds I am getting at this point.

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Nah, you don't want to start making that kind of a fold with a full house. I mean, it sure as hell looks like you're up against AA once Villain caps the river, but people do surprising things on occasion and also sometimes overvalue their hand.

Yodaman · #6 04-20-2007, 07:08 AM

I tend to C/R flop here or lead, usually the C/R, perhaps this is over aggressive?

As played its fine, not 3-betting river is too weak-tight IMO. SH tends to have a lot more action and aggressiveness.

Gurravasa · #7 04-20-2007, 07:40 AM

Nice played. You must 3-bet river for value. What he can have when he caps is not important since you must call anyway.

Oink · #8 04-20-2007, 08:13 AM

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You must 3-bet river for value.

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Claiming this without stating why is bad poker advice.

I agree with jstill. I just call his river raise. Yes AA, TT, AT is a narrow range. But what does he expect Hero to have when he raises the river with AK or AQ?

IMO AK and AQ must be discounted heavily, partly b/c of the river raise but certainly also b/c the turn call. I strongly disagree about river being a value 3-bet. Hero must call a cap so for a 3-bet to be good he must have 66% eq when he is called. I cant see how Hero's eq is ever that high.

There was a thread like this yesterday. I really think that some posters here plays their own 2 cards too much and dont think enough about villains range. Every once in a while villain's range is so narrow that a seemingly strong hand isnt that good.

Gurravasa · #9 04-20-2007, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You must 3-bet river for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Claiming this without stating why is bad poker advice.

I agree with jstill. I just call his river raise. Yes AA, TT, AT is a narrow range. But what does he expect Hero to have when he raises the river with AK or AQ?

IMO AK and AQ must be discounted heavily, partly b/c of the river raise but certainly also b/c the turn call. I strongly disagree about river being a value 3-bet. Hero must call a cap so for a 3-bet to be good he must have 66% eq when he is called. I cant see how Hero's eq is ever that high.

There was a thread like this yesterday. I really think that some posters here plays their own 2 cards too much and dont think enough about villains range. Every once in a while villain's range is so narrow that a seemingly strong hand isnt that good.

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What are you talking about Oink? What in the sentence "3-bet river for value" don't you understand?

I thought everybode here understood the term raise for value. But for you Oink I'll explain that it means that you raise to get more money in the pot when you think you're hand is good enough, in comparison to what you think your opponent have, to do that.

mvoss · #10 04-20-2007, 09:25 AM

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What are you talking about Oink? What in the sentence "3-bet river for value" don't you understand?

I thought everybode here understood the term raise for value. But for you Oink I'll explain that it means that you raise to get more money in the pot when you think you're hand is good enough, in comparison to what you think your opponent have, to do that.

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I think Oink understands "raise for value" perfectly. What I'd like to hear from you GVasa (and I think this is what Oink meant as well) is what range of hands do you put villain on that makes a raise better than calling here?