Interesting flop spot, 3/6

[jkkkk]

AJ.. AK.. KJ, depends how crazy he is, tons of hands out there to make mistakes with though.

and yes I know calling with KJ is not a mistake, but its a part of his range that I definitely want to be betting into, he'll be calling/raising with the worst of it and when we miss the turn/he hits we can take a free card, although the 9 would be a pretty [censored] card lol

[Josh.]

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AJ.. AK.. KJ, depends how crazy he is, tons of hands out there to make mistakes with though.

and yes I know calling with KJ is not a mistake, but its a part of his range that I definitely want to be betting into, he'll be calling/raising with the worst of it and when we miss the turn/he hits we can take a free card, although the 9 would be a pretty [censored] card lol

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i'll give you that AJ might crai, and that would be a mistake. AK has a lot of reverse implied odds cards so there's benefit to letting him catch a card that costs him his stack. yeah the 9 would suck, and a J might cost you your stack or cost you a chance to stack AA but you miss your hand a lot and saving the last bet is a big deal

[LB_001]

The mistake he'd be making with his lesser hands if we bet would be folding them. It also puts us in a much better spot to get paid off for the last half of his stack if we hit. Also knocking AK out is much better than keeping it in. Assuming we get stacked for sure on the 3 non spade jacks, and we stack him on the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I think he might fold sometimes if just the A or K come and he'll also have a higher spade redraw some of the time. If any of the other 4 aces or kings come we might cost ourselves a decent sized pot.

[Josh.]

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The mistake he'd be making with his lesser hands if we bet would be folding them. It also puts us in a much better spot to get paid off for the last half of his stack if we hit. Also knocking AK out is much better than keeping it in. Assuming we get stacked for sure on the 3 non spade jacks, and we stack him on the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I think he might fold sometimes if just the A or K come and he'll also have a higher spade redraw some of the time. If any of the other 4 aces or kings come we might cost ourselves a decent sized pot.

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can you clarify the first sentence? or maybe just an example. not sure which hands you're referring to

i don't see how he can get away from AK on an A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] turn. i suspect he'd bet and then have to call the shove. he can't put us on any type of hand after checking the flop. and if one of his 4 As or Ks come on the turn, yeah we have to call a bet, but we still have 9 spades and 2 8's to stack him. so that's nearly a wash. 3/4 of the time we lose one bet, 1/4 of the time we gain two bets. 2 pair also beats him, though we likely have no implied odds on that. but at least we gain one bet rather than losing one. so i think AK is very, very close

[LB_001]

sorry my first line was responding to what you said to jkkk about how can he make a mistake with 99/JJ/A10 when he has the proper odds to go all in, but folding those hands would be a mistake on his part. You're probably right that he would stack off on the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], it is a messy board though I think he might fold once in awhile. Also he might sometimes checkraise all in with AK to a flop bet depending on how aggro he is, which would be a nice bonus.

[Josh.]

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sorry my first line was responding to what you said to jkkk about how can he make a mistake with 99/JJ/A10 when he has the proper odds to go all in, but folding those hands would be a mistake on his part.

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well that's why i think shove is better than bet. as xorbie said, they're not checking so they can fold. and when he c/c the flop, i just don't know how often a turn shove works, even though his flop c/c is so weak. there's just so much distrust in 3-bet pots, and he'll convince himself that his 5 or 6 outs are enough to look you up. so i don't think betting the flop vs these hands will do you any good since you're left playing a likely -EV guessing game on the turn

[AAismyfriend]

He has AK and wants to c/r all in, and you have a pair. Bet and call a shove. Laugh when your bottom pair holds up. AYACHACHACHA