Raising a C-Bet

[Foghatlive]

It seems as though the C-Bet has become a default move for most players, as they pretty much expect to take down the pot with the bet, and if they do get raised, they assume they're beat.

That said, wouldn't raising C-Bets, regardless of your holdings be +EV.

[SellingtheDrama]

It depends on the initial raiser's raising range relative to the flop. If someone tends to raise the hijack with two big cards and the flop comes 789, it's pretty easy to steal. Very little in his range is strong on that flop.

Any action taken automatically by a player is the most exploitable thing they can do. Just gotta look for it, the countermoves are pretty straightforward.

[jay_shark]

If he's c-betting with the right frequency , then there is very little you can do to defend against it . So in a nutshell , raising a c-bet with atc's may very well be profitable if his c-bet range is any two cards .

[Foghatlive]

[ QUOTE ]
If he's c-betting with the right frequency , then there is very little you can do to defend against it . So in a nutshell , raising a c-bet with atc's may very well be profitable if his c-bet range is any two cards .

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that c-betting is done way too frequently, from what I've seen, to the point where you can profitably assume that the flop missed him.

[basementproject]

I agree. If i see a super-aggro player raising postflop and c-betting every flop, especially late position, I'm 3betting him, and usually I'm taking the pot. That's with air though. When I actually make a hand in this situation the line of play is totally different.

And for the record, I still c-bet way too much @ micro stakes, cause in my experience about 70% of the time it's folds all around. The other 30% i have no problem giving up on my hand if it doesn't hit. +EV for me to cbet.

There is complicated math behind all of this and I've read it somewhere, I'll try and dig it up tonight. Maybe pzhon will get to it before I do.

[Foghatlive]

[ QUOTE ]

And for the record, I still c-bet way too much @ micro stakes, cause in my experience about 70% of the time it's folds all around. The other 30% i have no problem giving up on my hand if it doesn't hit. +EV for me to cbet.


[/ QUOTE ]

I c-bet too often, too. It's an easy way to take down a pot. So, naturally, the temptation is there to overdo it.

That's why I think it's +ev to "C-bet steal."

[PantsOnFire]

There are many factors to raising a c-bet:

1. The pf raising range of the raiser (tight or wide?).

2. Texture of the flop (would this flop connect with this raiser?).

3. Frequency of cbets from the raiser (is it 100% or 50%?).

4. Position.

5. What you are holding.

6. How (weak)tight the raiser is.

7. How tricky the raiser is.

8. Is it heads up?

Also keep in mind that calling a c-bet is sometimes just as worrysome to the raiser and it costs less if you are wrong. Of course, you have to follow up on the turn with a bet if there is any weakness shown.

I have found that some players will fold all but a very good hand to a c-bet raise while some loose aggros will either call or raise back most of the time.

So in the end, I think your OP is too generic to be +EV in most situations. You need to apply some reads and other factors.

[Jeff_B]

I have added the C-bet % and the fold to C-bet % and fold to each street bet to my hud....
when a player is overall tight and the flop looks like he missed - I raise the cbet... Seems to be a profitable play overall just pick on weak tights that c-bet too much and dont be afraid to dump a weaker hand to a 3-bet..

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he's c-betting with the right frequency , then there is very little you can do to defend against it . So in a nutshell , raising a c-bet with atc's may very well be profitable if his c-bet range is any two cards .

[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that c-betting is done way too frequently, from what I've seen, to the point where you can profitably assume that the flop missed him.

[/ QUOTE ]

This same logic applies to reraising c-bets light as well. If a player's c-bet frequency has been relatively high, good players will put him on a wider c-bet range and come over the top more often, sure. In turn you'll usually be putting them on a lighter 3-bet range (especially if they're frustrated) - and so will other players.

Whether a person is c-betting the flop too much is also relative to their hand selection and flop texture. Consistently repopping a tighter player's c-bets isn't going to be profitable unless he's pretty passive. He then would only need to 4-bet bluff you with the right frequency in addition to 4-betting his legit hands and you're right back where you started, only with more variance.

If you're going to 3-bet light and often, you're going to get 4-bet light as well. That's a balancing act you have to work out, but one of the drawbacks applies to non-HU pots. You could find yourself putting in a lot of chips on a light reraise only to get the squeeze put on you by other players at the table. In cases where you're doing this with ATC you'll be throwing away larger amount of chips.

Another problem I have is that a player generally won't be c-betting any two cards. Recall that he did bet preflop, which (usually) will narrow his c-bet range a little, except in the rare cases where his opening range then was actually ATC. Just because he missed the flop doesn't mean his hand doesn't have some strength on its own.